International Trade Committee on May 21st, 2024

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Will I have an opportunity later?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

By the time we finish, we'll be into the next round of witnesses, I'm afraid.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Perhaps we should have shortened the rounds, because I'd like at least a minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go right ahead.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I don't know what to do now. Maybe I'll go to the....

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Keep going, Mr. Cannings. We'll give you as much as we can.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I'll start with seals and see how far I get.

I'm interested in the comment you made about how the EU is reconsidering or reanalyzing the sealing ban. I'm just wondering what that ban was based on. Was it sustainability, or was about the fact that seals are mammals and the method of the hunt? Which was it, and why are they reconsidering that?

[Adwaite Tiwary]

The EU said they were concerned about the way the seals were being hunted.

Just last week, they announced that they would be seeking feedback on the EU regulations about the ban. The consultation was launched on May 15 and will go on until August 7, so for another couple of months.

There are a couple of exceptions to the current ban. One is the indigenous exception for products that are certified as having been harvested by those who are indigenous.

We are working with stakeholders, with indigenous communities and with the governments of Northwest Territories and Nunavut to provide our perspective.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay. Just quickly, with respect to the other issues with the MMPA, how are the American methods different from ours? Why do they even have to consider what we're doing? It seems as though we're doing a lot.

[Todd Williams]

It's important to understand that the regulatory environment and context within the United States are different from those in Canada. In many respects, the regulatory system within DFO is, in some cases, superior. We have the flexibility to dynamically open and close certain fishing areas in which marine mammals, such as the North Atlantic right whale, may be present, and they can't easily do that, so they use other measures as a way to mitigate risk, including looking at the type of gear that is used, how much gear, in what capacity—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

I apologize to our witnesses, but the time is short. We will suspend until we've completed the three votes.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm calling the meeting back to order. Thank you very much, everybody.

We have with us by video conference, from the Bay of Fundy Inshore Fisherman's Association, Colin Sproul, president.

From the Canadian Whale Institute, we have Moira Brown, senior scientist, who is also here by video conference.

Welcome. We will start with opening remarks from both of you.

Mr. Sproul, I invite you to give opening remarks for up to five minutes, please.

[Colin Sproul, President, Bay of Fundy Inshore Fishermen's Association]

Madam Chair, thank you very much for this opportunity to share our views.

I appear before you today on behalf of the Bay of Fundy Inshore Fishermen's Association, where I serve as president. For 28 years we have represented owner-operator fishing families on the shores of the Bay of Fundy in Nova Scotia. Our group has a distinguished history of advocating for sustainable fishing practices and community-based fisheries management.

Over this time, our commitment to responsible use of resources has led us to partnerships with many groups in academia and the conservation community. We have a history of co-operation with governments and regulators at all levels, which has earned us a reputation as a valuable ally on ocean issues. Our members are proud of this legacy and are committed to preserving our way of life for future generations of Nova Scotians.

Today more than ever, international regulatory developments are having a direct effect on harvesters. In the past, these issues were more the concern of the export side of the industry, but today fishermen face direct calls for action on our part.

The most prominent of these today is the United States Marine Mammal Protection Act and the need for Canadian fishermen to comply with similar standards to retain market access in the U.S. for Canadian seafood products.

To facilitate this, a massive effort is taking place and continues to evolve, as conservation groups and fishing organizations work co-operatively with regulators to assure our American friends that we can and will do our part to conserve and protect marine mammals on our fishing grounds. We believe this co-operative approach is the correct one, and it has been guided by organizations like the Canadian Whale Institute and the Canadian Wildlife Federation.

These groups in particular understand the needs and priorities of the fishing industry and make great efforts to seek our [Technical difficulty—Editor] work collaboratively with harvesters.

The Government of Canada can assist in these important developments by continuing to create room for industry perspectives when considering the funding of NGO projects in this sphere.

It's a fact that our industry can co-operate with these organizations and achieve better outcomes for all stakeholders when our views are respected and included in decision-making. It's incumbent on government to support their important work, not groups that only seek to obstruct an industry so important to our economy.

It's imperative that the government strive to communicate our successes to American regulators and consumers. Many inaccuracies reported in the U.S. go unchallenged by DFO.

Most recently, American regulators have mandated an increase to the minimum-size lobster that can be harvested in U.S. waters in an effort to boost the numbers of juvenile lobster in the Gulf of Maine. This has presented Canadian harvesters with a dilemma. Do we follow suit and increase our minimum size?

This would result in lower initial landings, due to a size class of lobster that was previously harvestable being thrown back. On the other hand, not taking any action could result in the loss of U.S. market access, which is something our industry cannot afford, as America represents a significant share of the marketplace.

There are still areas where more work must be done. One is connecting inshore independent harvesters directly to international marketplaces. This valuable idea has seen little effort by government.

Perhaps most important to note is the failure of this government to appoint a fisheries conservation ambassador of Canada to represent our industry on behalf of all Canadians. This negligence sometimes leaves the industry voiceless at international tables or sees our voice replaced by transnational ENGOs with their own self-serving agendas and foreign funding.

The truth is that we have a story that deserves to be told abroad. It's a positive one of respect for the waters we rely on, of a commitment to science-based fisheries management and of the will to work co-operatively with our domestic and international partners in an effort to build value and sustainability in Atlantic Canada's most important industry.

Thank you, committee members. I invite your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Brown, the floor is yours, please, for up to five minutes.

[Dr. Moira Brown, Senior Scientist, Canadian Whale Institute]

Thank you, Madam Chair and committee members.

My name is Dr. Moira Brown. I'm a senior scientist with the Canadian Whale Institute located on Campobello Island, New Brunswick, off the shores of the Bay of Fundy. I'm also a scientist emerita at the New England Aquarium in Boston, Massachusetts. My research career has spanned 39 years and has been focused on the science and conservation of the critically endangered North Atlantic right whale throughout its range in Canada and the United States.

Some of the results of this research have been used to develop right whale recovery and action plans in Canada under the Species at Risk Act. Early on, my conservation work focused on working with the shipping industry to reduce the risk of vessel-whale collisions in the Maritimes. I led a working group of industry stakeholders, scientists, Canadian government regulators and many mariners to gain the adoption of two measures that have reduced the risk of vessel strikes in the Bay of Fundy and south of Nova Scotia in Roseway Basin—the two critical habitats for North Atlantic right whales. Starting in about 2010, right whales demonstrated a shift in their habitat, and many have moved from the Gulf of Maine and the Bay of Fundy to areas in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. However, they still continue to come to the two critical habitat areas, just not for as long or in anywhere near as many numbers.

More recently, I've been working on Canada's response to entangled whales in partnership with the DFO marine mammal response program. The Campobello whale rescue team is part of the Canadian Whale Institute and the primary responder for entangled whales in the waters of the maritime provinces and Quebec. That includes the Bay of Fundy around Nova Scotia, the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence and the St. Lawrence estuary. We've also started working with fish harvesters over the last few years in these waters to try to reduce entanglement through various means, including trials with rope-on-demand technology, also called, by some, “whalesafe gear”.

I continue to participate in several government-led advisory groups to reduce large vessel strikes throughout Canadian waters on the east coast and entanglement in commercial fishing gear. We've had terrific success working with fishers on these issues. Most of the responders on our whale rescue team are actually fish harvesters themselves who started as volunteers in this work and are now on standby to respond about eight months of the year.

I hope I can help you with your questions, and I look forward to it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Ms. Brown.

It's over to Mr. Baldinelli for six minutes.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I'd like to thank our witnesses for being here this afternoon.

I'm going to start with Mr. Sproul.

Thank you for your testimony. I can readily see, thanks to having the officials here earlier, the importance of the fishery sector. I mean, it's $7.6 billion in exports to 115 countries. Of course, our number one market, the U.S., alone is at $4.9 billion.

Mr. Sproul, you talked about a couple of things, not only your association, its membership and the concept of responsible actions you're taking. You talked about some of the concerns you have. One of them.... You referenced a fisheries ambassador and the notion that there's been no fisheries ambassador, leaving Canada kind of voiceless at international conferences and so on, and with no true champion.

Now, has that position been vacant for a while? Did Canada have previous ambassadors appointed?

[Colin Sproul]

Yes, the position has existed in the past. It was terminated by the federal government in 1996. In 2007, the Harper government appointed Canada's last fisheries ambassador for conservation. Since the current government's tenure, there has been no ambassador appointed.

I truly feel this is a big loss for the industry, in that the ambassador would have the best interests of all Canadian fishery stakeholders in mind. They would be a champion for the Canadian industry and help tell a good story abroad that really deserves to be told about the high levels of protection that all of Canada sees and enjoys, and about the collaborative efforts that have taken place through groups like the Canadian Whale Institute.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I think you've answered my question on how the ambassador can help advance Canada's fishing interests, so thank you for that in your comments. You also referenced foreign interests obstructing Canadian fisheries.

Can you expand on that?

[Colin Sproul]

I was recently alarmed to see the Department of Fisheries and Oceans collaborating with some American ENGOs, like IFAW. I don't feel they have been conducive to solving the right whale issue here.

On one hand, we really hope for the minister and representatives of the government to change the dialogue of the conversation within America about what Canada's efforts are and aren't regarding whales.

On the other hand, we see the department supporting initiatives outside of Canada, which we think are counterproductive to that. Certainly, there are environmental non-government organizations within Canada that receive funding from outside of Canada, and we also have a big, serious issue with that.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I think you raised it in some of your comments when you talked about three areas. Your first point was about establishing more of a collaborative relationship with the government and having it look towards organizations such as yours when looking at funding opportunities. You talked about examples of how some ENGOs are receiving funding from outside of Canada but not taking into consideration the viewpoints of Canadians and Canadian actions, such as the efforts your association is putting in.

Could you elaborate on that a little?

[Colin Sproul]

First, to be clear, my belief is that not all ENGOs are created equal. I want to be clear that I and my membership have the highest respect for the Canadian Whale Institute and the Canadian Wildlife Federation. They are two groups that I believe have really moved the dial on the conservation of whales in Canadian waters. They've made it possible for people like me to take that message to fish harvesters. They know that their views are respected. They know that groups like these care about the interests of fishermen.

It's important to note that I'm not meaning to disparage environmental non-government organizations. The successes we've enjoyed in conservation in Canada are largely thanks to them. I want to point out that they come in different forms, and some of them are more interested in their own operations and self-preservation than better outcomes for whales.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

A more fulsome dialogue and comments from all groups would be more than helpful.

Quickly, there's the Marine Mammal Protection Act in the United States, but there are other rules and regulations that Canadian fishermen and exporters have to follow, for example, on the health side of fish exports.

When we look at other sectors in the Canadian economy with regard to food exports, you have issues such as sanitary and phytosanitary measures that are used almost as non-tariff barriers.

Are you finding, on the health side, that there are rules and regulations, for example, in the United States, that are not helpful or that kind of preclude Canadian fish products from getting into the United States?

[Colin Sproul]

I would be speaking out of turn to comment on that question, given that my perspectives are largely limited to the harvesting side of the industry. It's a question that will be best posed at the next committee meeting, where I know that representatives of the export sector and lobster processing sector will be present. They will include the Lobster Council of Canada, which represents the Bay of Fundy Inshore Fishermen's Association and a myriad of other inshore fishing groups across Canada. I think it's a question best answered by them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much. I'm sorry, but you're over time.

Next, we have Ms. Fortier, please.