International Trade Committee on May 21st, 2024

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank both witnesses for joining us this afternoon.

One of my concerns is the impact of climate change. When we talk about the fishery, the Canadian fish and seafood industry, we must really take time to look at the impact of climate change in this area. We've seen the temperature in the Gulf of St. Lawrence rise by 2°C. This has significantly affected certain fisheries.

In terms of protecting Canada's fish and seafood industry, how can Canada ensure that its waters truly sustain marine life in order to avoid losing valuable aquatic ecosystems and species?

I'll ask Ms. Brown to answer my question first. I'll then put the question to Mr. Sproul.

[Dr. Moira Brown]

My comments will be restricted to whales, as I'm a whale biologist, not a fisheries biologist.

What we have noticed since 2010 is a change in the habitat of North Atlantic right whales. Right whales typically came up into the Bay of Fundy and could be found there between June and December, but primarily in August, September and October each year. Those studies were begun by colleagues at the New England Aquarium in 1980. We saw a pretty persistent distribution of those whales seasonally and in numbers for about 30 years. Then 2010 came along and we started to see fewer right whales and greater variability in numbers each year. Then 2016 was more of a normal year, but since then, we've literally had just a handful of right whales seen in the Bay of Fundy, five to six a year.

These animals can be individually identified. They are photographed elsewhere. We know they're still alive. They're seen in their southern habitats and along the U.S. coast. Some are also seen in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

The areas off Roseway Basin are not surveyed as often as they used to be by grant funders like you to actually find right whales when you go out for surveys, but the Canadian government does continue to do aerial surveys out there, and there are some acoustic listening devices.

At this point, with an estimated population of about 360 right whales—that's the whole species—about 140 of them are returning to the Gulf of St. Lawrence each summer. As for the remaining ones, their location in the summertime is actually not known.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Wow. This is problematic, as you have shared at this time.

I might ask Mr. Sproul the same question that I asked earlier.

[Colin Sproul]

In my view, the best way the government can support a changing environment and its effect on fisheries is to support fishery science at a large scale within the department, but also at a smaller scale in industry-led science and partnerships that lobster and other harvesters are involved in all across the Atlantic provinces.

I'm actually the president of the Southwest Lobster Science Society. A lot of our members and a lot of fishermen in southwest Nova Scotia are very focused on lobster science, but we find that funding for that can be very hard to come by. We'd love to be able to collaborate with our international partners. Just this past fall, we weren't able to attend what is the pre-eminent lobster management science convention in the world, because the department refused to fund it.

A focus on science and a better understanding of fishery resources and how they're changing is how the government should be helping the industry directly.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Sproul, in the last minute that I have, do you have any other suggestions? You understand there is a need for this sector of the economy to continue to flourish. Are there any other recommendations you would have for our committee?

[Colin Sproul]

In terms of the subject of the committee, international trade, one of the most important actions that the government can take right now is for government representatives from the Ministry of Fisheries and others to tell the good news story of Canadian fisheries. From my view, I've never seen a government so ready to disparage itself, its own fishermen and its own industry. I know that Canada's fisheries are incredibly well managed overall and that our oceans are subject to some of the most stringent protections in the world, so I think it's really incumbent on the government at this point to let everybody else in the world know that too, especially in our consumer markets in Europe and America.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, please, you have six minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses.

Ms. Brown, you're the senior scientist at the Canadian Whale Institute. The representative of the Bay of Fundy Inshore Fishermen's Association told us earlier that we should question the science behind the Americans' decisions. He told us that these decisions are basically political.

Could you share your scientific opinion?

[Dr. Moira Brown]

There have always been a lot of politics around right whales on both sides of the border. However, I will say that in Canada the measures that the Canadian government is taking to reduce the risk of entanglement and of vessel strikes are unprecedented anywhere in the world and exceed what is being done in the U.S.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

According to your scientific opinion, I gather that the Americans' fears are unfounded.

[Dr. Moira Brown]

The Americans are trying to level the playing field for protective measures against human-related mortality among right whales from both vessel strikes and entanglements. Perhaps there was a time when some of their measures exceeded ours, but since 2017 Canada has really increased its level of protection for right whales. We're not there yet. We still have human-related mortality and serious injury affecting reproduction in this population, but we've really come a long way since 2017, and I believe our measures exceed those used in the U.S. right now.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

We'll keep that in mind. Thank you.

Mr. Sproul, do you have anything to add about the unscientific nature of the Americans' decisions?

[Colin Sproul]

It's important for the committee to understand that there's a fundamental difference in the relationship between Canadian fishermen and Canadian conservation groups compared with the relationship between American fishermen and American conservation groups in that there has been a much more oppositional approach. Some people in the U.S. would like to attribute that to fishermen, but I think it needs to be attributed to groups like the International Fund for Animal Welfare, which has taken an incredibly aggressive approach towards fishermen, including suing individual American fishermen who are attempting to collaborate on conservation.

I think that's what has led to some of that animosity, and there are misrepresentations about what's taking place in Canada by all the stakeholders in the U.S. I wouldn't just attribute it to the veracity of science; I think it's more related to politics.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I want to draw a few parallels. In Quebec, lobster fishing is extremely important. Is there some lobster fishing in the Bay of Fundy as well?

[Colin Sproul]

The Bay of Fundy is the most diverse marine ecosystem on the face of the earth, and fishing is foundationally important to the communities that line the Bay of Fundy. Fishery products are our largest export in Nova Scotia, so I can't overemphasize how important they are to our communities. They are the only bulwark between the economic renaissance we've seen in coastal communities in Atlantic Canada and the economic downturn that's so prevalent everywhere else.

I can't stress enough what a diffuse economic benefit it has delivered to—

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Sproul. I'm sure that the fishing industry plays an important role in the communities.

Let me clarify my question. Is there any lobster fishing in your area?

[Colin Sproul]

Yes, there certainly is. Lobster is really king in the Bay of Fundy. I think we calculated nearly a billion dollars' worth from the Bay of Fundy alone last year.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You must know that some American policies prohibit the use of seals as bait for lobster fishing. This protectionist measure could have serious implications.

[Colin Sproul]

Yes, there are certainly a lot of concerns in the lobster industry right now about access to bait, especially considering the moratorium on fishing pelagic species like mackerel and what that has meant.

Bait is a chief concern. I'm sure there are lots of fishermen who would like to see the development of seal products for bait, and hopefully not at the expense of market access.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Have you seen any real and tangible consequences yet? If not, is it more a matter of fears and threats at this stage?

[Colin Sproul]

I think they are largely imagined consequences at this point. There is not widespread use of seal products as lobster bait.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Have you been in contact with Canadian leaders to try to overcome this obstacle?

[Colin Sproul]

The dialogue between Canadian officials and the industry certainly leaves room for improvement. There's an international dialogue as well, which is great, and there are things like the U.S.-Canada Lobster Town Meeting, which really helps to improve the dialogue between the industries. However, there's certainly room for the government to improve on its consultation with the fishing industry on all of these issues, and it would be dishonest for me to say that we ever had good consultations on the issues we're discussing today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Cannings, you have six minutes.