International Trade Committee on Aug. 21st, 2024

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Please speak. You've got the floor. You're next on my list.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

With respect to imposing import duties, my life has come full circle. I was born in a country which traditionally had very high import duties to the tune of 200% to 300%. It was a poor country. It remained underdeveloped. I did not know it then, but by not being part of free trade and in trying to protect the domestic industries through artificial barriers of import duties, like the domestic car and domestic two-wheeler industries, it remained underdeveloped for decades until it started economic reforms.

It is quite interesting to see developed countries like the United States and Canada and those in the European Union nowmoving away from free trade and imposing duties on various imported products to protect the domestic sectors. We don't know what the impact of this will be. Better experts and much wiser people than me can predict the future under this new regime of moving away from free trade and of using import duties to protect domestic sectors.

To my colleagues who have been asking that we follow the United States immediately in imposing import duties on Chinese electric vehicles, Canada is not the United States. The United States is a superpower, a major economic power and a major military power, and every single country thinks twice before it retaliates against any move that the United States makes, including imposing import duties, but we are not the United States.

The United States looks at international relations. Even though they have major political differences with China, they have good ongoing business-to-business relations with China. Major top officials of the United States regularly visit China. While emphasizing their political differences, they also focus on enhancing the business and economic relations.

However, we are not the U.S. We have to think that any move to impose duties on Chinese electric vehicles will certainly result in retaliation by China, so we have to be clear about which domestic sector we are willing to throw under the bus to impose this. Is it the canola growers who export to China, or the beef exporters, the pork exporters, the palm oil exporters or the soybean exporters? In the agriculture and agri-food sector, I think we are exporting more than $7 billion or $8 billion to China. We have a surplus of over $4 billion in our trade with China, but we have to be ready to see the retaliation and be willing to confront, in advance, which of these Canadian exports to China we are willing to sacrifice to impose these duties on electric vehicles.

It's good that we're doing a study. We should call all experts. We should call the Canola Growers Association. We should call the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance. We should call the experts who can guide us on how the imposition of import duties will affect our competitiveness in the medium to longer term.

I know you guys want to call the steel and aluminum sector people, who are the biggest voices in this demand, but you have to remember that in the steel and aluminum sectors, all companies in Canada are owned by foreign companies. These two sectors don't export to anywhere else in the world from Canada except for the United States and Mexico, so they don't care if China or any other country imposes duties on Canadian exports to those countries. Here we are trying to protect the most protected steel and aluminum industries, and they have the biggest voice in these discussions.

Anyway, I'm glad that we are conducting a study. I know my views will be in the minority, but we need to, and I'm glad we are going to, invite the experts from the various exporting bodies and the sectors representing the Canadian exports to different parts of the world, including China.

Hopefully they'll be brought in. We could listen to their concerns, their views and their thoughts, and we could also listen to the experts who could say how moving away from free trade and how imposing tariffs to protect the domestic sector will play out in the long-term health of the Canadian economy, of Canadian sectors and of our competitiveness.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Before we go any further, we need to move a motion to adopt the motion as amended that Mr. Williams placed on the table. We need to take that vote.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Do you need a motion, or is it a motion as amended?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It will, I believe, be the motion as amended. Is that correct?

[The Clerk]

The question is whether we need a recorded vote. Is there is an agreement?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Do we need a recorded vote? We don't need a recorded vote. Is everybody good with that?

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

So the motion is adopted?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

The motion is adopted. We know where we're going with this. I'm sorry it took so long for us to get there.

By the way, congratulations to Mr. Genuis. I was worried one time about multiplying the world, and now I know we have you here.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that.

The motion is passed, as I understand. I did want to make a few comments about the study, but I didn't want to do that before the motion had passed, because I wanted to make sure we got that done. Given that it has passed, I did want to add one comment about the importance of the work that we are doing here.

I appreciate Mr. Williams putting forward this motion. I agree with everything he said about the importance of protecting our economy and protecting Canadian workers. There is an additional piece of context, and that is the nature of some of these supply chains as they are coming to be dominated by the PRC.

Three and a half years ago, Parliament voted to recognize that Uyghurs and other Turkic peoples in the PRC are facing an ongoing genocide. The Government of Canada has yet to join Parliament in recognizing that genocide, and we would certainly hope to see that recognition soon. One component of this genocide is horrific forced labour and the ongoing targeting of Uyghurs—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Genuis, hold on.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

I have a point of order. This does not relate to Standing Order 106(4). Let's stay on topic.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Just give me a moment here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Okay, I'll give you a moment, but it isn't related to 106(4), and it has been a strenuous afternoon here. I'll give you back the floor for a bit to finish your comment.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm just saying that when we talk about the fact that the PRC is coming to dominate the supply of electric vehicles, the risks associated with that are risks to our domestic sectors, but they're also risks in terms of human rights in that so many of the critical minerals coming into the new battery economy are sourced in ways that are absolutely deplorable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Absolutely.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I think this is an important part of the context of how we understand the importance of these tariffs, and I think it's important to....

I'm sorry, I'm getting some feedback from the floor; I thought I had the floor.

This is just to say that the human rights dimensions of the EV supply chain are critical. The conditions in sourcing in the DRC, as well as issues of forced labour in the PRC, are things I think we should be seized with as well. I'm very supportive of this tariff policy and the hearings that we're going to have. I think they're important for Canadian workers who, in the present climate and without effective measures to combat forced labour in our supply chains, are effectively being forced to compete against goods that are produced through slave labour. That's not fair to the victims of that slave labour, and it's not fair to Canadian workers. I'm looking forward to this study.

I have one other comment, which is that maybe we should set a witness list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I agree with everything you've said so far. I don't want to have to cut you off, but I have some committee business that I still have to give direction on. You and I can have that discussion anyway, because we both think similarly on that point.

To the committee members, you have two weeks to get your witness lists in so that the clerk has sufficient time to get our witnesses lined up. Two weeks should be sufficient time for everybody to do that. Are we all in agreement?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I thank everybody, especially those online, for their patience on their end. I would rather have been on your line than on this line, but at least we got the job done. Thank you all very much.

The meeting is adjourned.