Evidence of meeting #12 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ukraine.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
Do you think we are well positioned on both sides to be able to do that upswing on the trade relationship?
5:20 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Government Relations, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Yes. I mean, not in the short term, because, as Mr. Shevchenko said, there's certainly an active conflict ongoing and there will be a need to rebuild. However, once the domestic Ukrainian infrastructure starts to be rebuilt, hopefully, after the conflict ends, then we will see trade start to increase. I think that's still a bit of a way off at this point.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
Can you name just one factor that is going to really be a game-changer in this whole thing?
5:20 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Government Relations, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Hopefully it will be the absence of a conflict. I'm not trying to be glib about it, but I think that when that conflict ends, then hopefully Canadian companies will see a reason to start to think about that market again.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
On the business and investment side, where's the hope?
5:20 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Government Relations, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
We have the existing agreement in place. I would look at agriculture and fisheries as being one area. Ukraine's own domestic food production is going to be affected negatively by the conflict, so I think there's a risk of being, frankly, opportunistic about human tragedy. If you look at the economic realities, countries like Canada will have a chance to step in and help with Ukrainian food security coming out of the immediate aftermath of the conflict.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
There are sectors we can see being very promising that we haven't tackled yet. I'm sure, as we are planning to move forward on this trade relationship, we must have a plan on how to move forward and prepare ourselves, the business community, as well as the political and governmental side of it. In which areas do you think we can have the most hope to pick up the trade relationship further?
5:20 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Government Relations, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Again, not wanting to come off as opportunistic in a time of human tragedy—
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
I'm not trying to either.
It's very unfortunate that we're having this discussion, but the conversation's on the table and we're trying to somehow modernize the free trade agreement.
5:20 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Government Relations, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
One area, for instance, is going to be in engineering, construction and infrastructure services. Again, there's going to be a lot that's going to have to be rebuilt in the country. I think if you look at where Canada has expertise, infrastructure and engineering is one area where there's a complementarity, if I can use that term.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
We'll move on to Mr. Arya for five minutes, please. He will be our last questioner.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it.
Mr. Winston Gereluk, you mentioned the labour issues in Ukraine, and your points are taken. However, if you refer to the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement, we have a chapter—chapter 13, I think—on labour. Both Canada and Ukraine will reaffirm our commitment to the International Labour Organization and we accept the principles on the rights of workers adopted by the ILO.
Specifically, we have considered all the aspects related to labour, whether it's the abolition of child labour, the abolition of forced or compulsory labour, the elimination of discrimination, or the minimum employment standards that we have to accept, such as minimum wages, overtime pay and obviously the issues related to occupational injuries, illnesses, etc. Those things have been considered in the current agreement.
However, there is always scope for improvement. I agree. If you have anything specific that you feel is left out of the current agreement and that we can consider in the modernization of the agreement, please let us know. The time is limited, though, for you to go into that. If possible, I'll come back to you, but please provide in writing all the shortcomings you see or, rather than the shortcomings, the things that can be considered in modernizing the agreement.
Mr. Bouchard, I really appreciate the anguish of the problem you're facing. Canada is a trading nation. I came from a private sector company into politics. We don't have the luxury to trade only with other countries that are as good as Canada. For us to survive—as private companies and as a country—we have to trade with almost everybody. We have to trade with non-democratic countries where authoritarianism is the rule, and sometimes we have to deal with countries that are not—that are corrupt, to put it very simply. However, we need to have trade going on, and I appreciate the problem you have.
Respectfully, I have to disagree with the statement by one of the witnesses that if you want to do business, you have a price to pay. That was the implication of the statement by one of the witnesses. Respectfully, I disagree. Whenever we have free trade agreements with several countries, the sectors affected by that agreement are compensated by the Government of Canada. I hope there is some mechanism by which we can look into the issues faced by the countries that are being affected by the sanctions.
Mr. Clayton Kotylak, as we know, Russia and Ukraine are both exporters of wheat. I think Russia exported close to 13 million tonnes and Ukraine about 20 million or 25 million tonnes, and obviously Canada is a big exporter of wheat. With wheat being a food commodity that is very important for everybody in the world, this is going to have an impact: The sanctions on Russia and the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia will affect the trade in wheat, and Canada is one of the major exporters.
My question is, what is the world capacity to grow wheat? Or, rather, what is the capacity utilization? Are we growing wheat to the maximum capacity that is available, or is there is further potential available for us to grow and export?
5:25 p.m.
Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
There's always wiggle room to adjust acres, but part of what it means to be a farmer in western Canada is that you grow only one crop per year. Given the nature of that type of business, it forces you to play the long game.
When you're thinking in terms of one farmer's career, in which there are only perhaps 25 or 30 crops, sustainability is of the utmost importance. It has been that way certainly since I started farming. What this really means is that one of the biggest components of sustainability is crop rotation.
Yes, there is room for adjustment in the production of wheat; however, we have to consider the situation in perhaps a year or two years from now, when we may be in an even worse situation if this conflict continues or if there's perhaps a global drought. Although we can pivot, it probably would be a potential increase of only about 10% in the production of wheat in western Canada.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much for that answer.
To all of our witnesses, we know it's very difficult times and we're certainly doing everything we can to assist the people of Ukraine.
Again, thank you so much to our witnesses for taking the time today, and to our committee members, thank you all very much.
The meeting is adjourned.