International Trade Committee on April 25th, 2022

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

With respect to India, I think all signs with respect to that early progress agreement between Minister Goyal and Minister Ng.... That was a terrific development, so kudos to the departmental teams that have been working on that for some time and addressing the fumigation issue, which I know has been an irritant for some time. Those are important initiatives.

Madam Chair, how much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 15 seconds, so I don't think you have any more time left.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I'll just say thank you very much. We look forward to working with you and also assisting you in that work as a committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Mr. Virani.

Mr. Savard-Tremblay, you have six minutes, please.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Good afternoon.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here and for providing their input.

I have here the Quebec government's Indo‑Pacific strategy. It's called the pathway to economic growth: new ambitions for Québec. Towards the end of the document, the government addresses sustainable development and the green economy, a core area of action. That is the first item of interest. One of the pillars under that core area is reinforcing Quebec's commitment to the green economy, and to do that, Quebec intends to promote its products, services and expertise in the green economy and responsible tourism sector among stakeholders in the Indo-Pacific region.

I listened closely when the parliamentary secretary asked you which regions would be more open to clean tech. Have you spoken with officials in the Quebec government to coordinate Quebec's and Canada's strategies in that area?

[Arun Alexander]

We consult regularly with all provinces, including Quebec, on our negotiation strategy. We take input from them. We have regular meetings. After negotiating rounds, we have debriefing sessions with provinces where we discuss issues that were raised. I did one immediately after the first round of negotiations with Indonesia and had a very constructive dialogue with all of the provinces, including Quebec.

Mr. Allen, I'll ask you to speak about any other negotiations.

[Jay Allen]

We take the same approach and have had regular contact with the Government of Quebec, including on this issue.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

I have a more specific question. Indonesia is home to an industry that a number of environmental groups and others find concerning, palm oil production. There is concern that a future trade agreement to which Indonesia is a signatory could lead to greater deforestation.

Have you examined the issue? In your future discussions, will you be imposing strict ethical standards when it comes to the production of palm oil?

[Arun Alexander]

We have looked at the palm oil issue. We think it is a very important issue. We want to ensure that trade and economic development goes hand in hand with the environment. We've made it a priority to emphasize during our discussions with Indonesians—I would note, that we are only after round one—the importance of environmental stewardship. Our objective is to seek out strong and enforceable obligations in an environment chapter that would promote the sustainable use of forestry and the sustainable use of [Technical difficulty—Editor]. It is a key priority for the government in our negotiations with Indonesia.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Nevertheless, since 2007, palm oil imports to Canada have risen by 400%, so it is reasonable to think that any future agreement would result in even more palm oil imports.

Does it not concern you that opening the door to more palm oil imports to Canada would naturally result in deforestation?

[Arun Alexander]

I would note that palm oil imports to Canada are relatively low. In 2021 we imported approximately 43 million dollars' worth of palm oil from Indonesia.

We think that working with Indonesia in a collaborative and co-operative manner on forestry stewardship and sustainable forestry practices will help Indonesia manage its ecosystem and plantations for palm oil products in a manner that is responsible and sustainable. That would be our goal through an agreement.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I gather, then, that, before Canada's negotiating team deems any future agreement to be acceptable, Indonesia will certainly have to meet minimum requirements regarding its oil production.

[Arun Alexander]

Yes, we have negotiating objectives that we have presented before Parliament. We are seeking to have an enforceable environment chapter with high-standard obligations and a collaborative element to work together with Indonesia to promote responsible environmental stewardship.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you for pointing that out. I'm happy to hear you are already considering the environmental component. We will be paying close attention to those developments.

If I understand correctly, Canada is working to negotiate a free trade agreement with the region and, in parallel, a bilateral agreement with Indonesia. Is that correct?

[Arun Alexander]

Yes, that's correct. There are bilateral negotiations with Indonesia and negotiations with ASEAN as a region.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

I have no further questions at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Masse, you have six minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our guests for being here.

One of the things I'd like to start on is small, medium or large arms manufacturing. Are there any discussions of that as trade? Which companies are being focused on?

[Arun Alexander]

We are still very early in the negotiations, so we haven't gotten into specific product categories, like arms. We're discussing goods in general and we are consulting with Canadian companies, but we haven't reached that stage where we're discussing specific product categories.

Jay, is there anything you'd like to add?

[Jay Allen]

No. We're in the same situation. It's round one with India, and we haven't had a first round yet with ASEAN.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You're starting the negotiations without even an idea of what types of products or services would be a priority. You're not including, for example, auto or parts manufacturing or agriculture.

[Arun Alexander]

Yes, we know which areas are the priority. I think I mentioned them earlier. They're business services, machinery and equipment, agri-food, chemical products, computer and electronic products, and the potential for clothing and textiles, seafood, motor vehicles and parts, and metal products.

We haven't started going through line by line yet on product-specific sectors in our negotiations. We're still in the early phases.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

What would the timing be for the discussion of arms manufacturing? It seems that it would be its own line item, since we have small arms and other arms manufacturing in Canada.

When would that be engaged, if it's not now? It seemed to be a general category, similar to other ones, and it's a unique one, obviously, that has sensitivities. When does that come into play? Is it added later on?

[Arun Alexander]

The discussions are still at an early stage. We're still at round one, which is an explanation of each of our approaches to the various chapters. As we move along in the negotiations, they will become more specific. We'll deal more specifically with sectors, and specific sectors, at that time.

I can't tell you exactly when we'll start doing that—it will depend on the willingness of our partners in Indonesia and other countries as well—but we will move to those in a timely manner.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

What has Indonesia, for example, presented back to us as a priority? They must have presented some topics back to us.

I'm a bit surprised that arms manufacturing would not have come up in either country's discussions, since it is very much an attractive trade element. Some of these countries that we're dealing with have some sensitivities related to that. Opening the door for trade that could include that, without any terms and conditions, is something I'm concerned about.