Evidence of meeting #29 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ports.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
President and Chief Executive Officer, AGT Food and Ingredients Inc.
I think you have to go to infrastructure.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Okay. Thank you very much. Those were two fast answers.
We'll move on to Mr. Miao for five minutes, please.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for participating in this study today.
There's no doubt that there is an effect on our supply chain across the nation due to the number of containers. I'm wondering if anyone can share with me how many containers your businesses use annually. Do you have a better idea of how many containers are needed?
Maybe Mr. Al-Katib can answer first.
President and Chief Executive Officer, AGT Food and Ingredients Inc.
We are one of the largest container users in the country. Our Canadian business ships in the range of 25,000 to 35,000 containers per year. Again, that's probably among the largest 10 users in the whole country.
From our perspective, though, we've had to recreate our supply chains. The equivalent of likely another 20,000 containers has now been diverted to bulk vessels via the Port of Vancouver for bulk loading because containers aren't available. Our volume would be more in the range of 50,000, but we're only doing 30,000.
President, Quorum Corporation
I did a quick calculation. It's about 346,000 TEUs a year for grain alone.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you.
Does Mr. Negad want to share that information as well?
Chief Operating Officer, N. Tepperman Limited
Sure. We're a family-owned business. We're a very small regional chain, and we do less than 1,000 containers a year, but it's the pricing impact that is significant for us.
I should also clarify, as I know I made a comment that was based on data from yesterday, that there's not always much of a difference between the Port of Seattle and the Port of Vancouver. When we did a study in February, it was a 30% difference. The U.S. was 30% cheaper than Canada. However, what's happening is that because the U.S. ports have more scheduled ships and volumes have dropped, they have all these ships already destined to go there, so they're putting on a fire sale, getting many more than what Canada would get. I wanted to clarify that.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you very much for sharing that.
I had a chance to speak to the Vancouver port authority a couple of months ago. I understand that they are also doing some expansion on the west coast, one expansion being the Roberts Bank Terminal 2.
I'm not too sure if I'm correct with the following information, but the Prince Rupert terminal doesn't have 40-foot container capacity, so most of those bigger containers are coming in through the Vancouver port and are off-loaded through the west coast to other parts of Canada.
With the container limitation—and most of the time the containers are coming into Canada—do any of your businesses see empty containers being shipped out right away after being off-loaded because of how containers are in demand globally?
Maybe Mr. Al-Katib can start.
President and Chief Executive Officer, AGT Food and Ingredients Inc.
I can start.
I believe your understanding of the 40-foot situation in Prince Rupert is not correct. Prince Rupert can handle 40-foot containers, but we did see a very significant increase in the number of empty containers that were being shipped back, not only directly from the port but also from inland locations. They were empty and were not stopping. Part of that was driven very much by the rates they were getting out of Asia. The containers were moved back empty, as they were getting $30,000 a container to come back, so from that perspective, they decided they wouldn't let them stay here.
We're seeing that ease now. Business is getting tougher for the steamship lines to get, and now they're taking all the volume they can get again, which is going to be good news for Canada.
Chief Operating Officer, N. Tepperman Limited
In our case, actually, the return of containers in Brampton is causing a problem because there is congestion. As I mentioned earlier, there is congestion in Brampton at the yards. They've added yards, and it's causing a big problem. The drayage companies can't unload their empties fast enough, so they have to sit until they are able to drop off their empties.
For us there's been a big problem with empties as well. They are not going back fast enough.
President, Quorum Corporation
I would refer him to figure 3 in the document I presented. It gives you the numbers on how much empty container movement there was out of the Port of Vancouver.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much.
We've completed two rounds of questioning. Does the committee wish to do another round, or do any committee members have some critical questions they would like to ask the witnesses?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Everybody is good. Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much to the witnesses. That was very valuable information that we'll take forward in looking for some solutions the committee might recommend.
We will go in camera. I will suspend for, hopefully, two minutes only, and we can deal with committee business following that.
[Proceedings continue in camera]
