International Trade Committee on Oct. 28th, 2022

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Is there a date that Canada can expect the ban on thermal coal exports to be in place?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I can't give you a date, but I can tell you that we are working very diligently at this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Martel, you have five minutes, please.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

I want to thank you and your officials for being here today, Minister.

I'd like to talk liquefied natural gas, or LNG. Germany asked Canada to supply the European country with LNG, but Canada said that it was focusing instead on becoming a supplier of hydrogen energy. The hydrogen sector is still in the early stages of development, whereas Canada could be exporting the world's cleanest LNG.

Why isn't Canada seizing that opportunity?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

It was really terrific to welcome Chancellor Scholz to Canada and to work with him and my colleague Minister Habeck from Germany on solutions that will see Canada collaborate with Germany to supply green energy solutions.

We have signed some really important agreements with Germany, in particular with industries in Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz. They are looking to Canada as the place for the future development of those particular companies and that particular sector, precisely because of the green renewable energy that we have here in Canada.

Our commitment to work with Germany and with our partners in Europe is a very real one. We are very pleased with the agreement that we have signed on hydrogen.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I'm not satisfied with that response, Minister, since you didn't really answer my question.

We heard the Prime Minister say that there had to be a business case for exporting LNG. With Germany, Great Britain, France and other countries in Europe facing an energy crisis and an LNG shortage for a number of years to come, they are turning to Canada.

Isn't that business case enough?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I am sure that my colleague, the minister responsible for natural resources, could give you a much deeper answer.

I would say that there is no question that Russia's unjustified invasion of Ukraine has demonstrated the importance of co-operating with partners like Canada and Germany together to build resilient supply chains and also to provide the energy that is needed. It is also an opportunity for us to really fight climate change together and to accelerate that.

I think that the agreement we have reached together on the acceleration of hydrogen is really historic. This is the kind of work that Canada is working on and will continue to work on with Germany. It is so important that we do this work.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

You mentioned climate change. Using LNG will prevent the operation of coal-fired plants, so, as I see it, LNG is very good for the environment.

On another topic, the softwood lumber dispute is taking on a new form. The U.S. industry has begun attacking Canada for its program to protect forests and fight climate change, saying the program amounts to subsidies.

How does Canada intend to defend itself, since it hasn't managed to make its case after all these years?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I would say that our points are known. We have done well in decisions that have been returned in Canada's favour at the WTO.

We have a chapter 10 in this CUSMA precisely because our government negotiated that very important chapter when we were renegotiating CUSMA. You might recall that at that time, you and your colleagues said we should just take any deal that was present at the time. For us, it was absolutely critical to get chapter 10 and to get that dispute settlement chapter into the renegotiation. We were successful there.

We are taking this matter there and we are going to continue to fight this on all fronts, including through the dispute settlement panel bilaterally as well as internationally. At the same time, we'll work with the industry very closely so that we can create the right conditions or work through those right conditions to get a good deal for Canada, and not just any deal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go on to Mr. Miao for five minutes, please.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, Minister and officials from the department. Thank you for all the hard work you have been doing in meeting with many around the world to promote Canada's trade.

Over the past year, our committee has discussed at length the importance of a potential Canada-ASEAN free trade agreement and the benefit it would have for Canadian companies and exporters. I know you have been in discussions with ASEAN and you have visited the region on more than one occasion. Most recently, you travelled to Indonesia, where you met with a number of Indonesian government officials to strengthen bilateral trade as Canada and Indonesia celebrate 70 years of diplomatic relationship this year.

You were extremely busy on this trip, meeting with many colleagues in the Indo-Pacific. Can you share some of the highlights and major takeaways from these meetings? How did they work to benefit Canadian businesses back home?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

As the committee will know, Canada is presently at the negotiating table with the ASEAN bloc of 10 countries. Some of those countries are already a part of the CPTPP. We are also at the negotiating table with Indonesia on a bilateral agreement.

To give people the sense of scale of the opportunity, Indonesia is a country of 280 million people. Next to the United States, they are number two. The only two other countries larger than that are India and China, so it will be and is an important trading relationship. As you pointed out, we already have 70 years of diplomatic relations with Indonesia, and with the countries of the ASEAN, they are projected to be the third-largest bloc in the world. It is fast-growing, and we already have tremendous Canadian presence there.

In each of these trips that I do, I have an opportunity to meet with women-owned businesses and the Canadian companies that are operating on the ground so that they can talk to me about the kind of growth they are seeing in what they say to me are frontier markets. That's real market access for both services and goods, and that is really very important. We are going to be celebrating an anniversary of 45 years in the ASEAN-Canada relationship, so both of these trading agreements on both tracks are extremely important.

What are trade agreements important for? They are important so that we are able to create the right conditions through those agreements for businesses to do business and for investors to have confidence because there is a set of predictable rules that they can look to in order to make Canadian investments grow into the region or make those very investments grow into Canada.

I was very pleased, while I was in the region, to launch a Canada trade gateway to the Indo-Pacific, to the Asia-Pacific. We have a tremendous group of trade commissioners and human capital in the region, but this really will help us coordinate in a way that allows Canadian companies one window or one door.

I've been telling people in the region that the door swings both ways. It's a way for Canadian companies to understand the opportunities in the region and to create those supports, whether they are from the Canadian trade accelerators, tech accelerators, the Canadian trade commissioner service or the range of Canadian chambers that are now all over the region to support and to work together with Canadian businesses and exporters who are looking to grow in that region. It is very dynamic. I know that as part of its work, the committee has some plans to take a look at it on the ground, and I think you will see what I see, which is this dynamic growth.

I'm someone who is very committed to inclusive trade that works for everyone and to making sure that every business, no matter what size, gets a foothold in those economies and gets into those countries. Growth means jobs for Canadians, and good jobs for Canadians are good for our communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We have Monsieur Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes, please.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Minister, please keep your answer brief because I have only two and a half minutes. A yes or no answer would be great.

We read your news release on your meeting with the German vice-chancellor, and you confirmed it today. We know that Canada's focus will be hydrogen energy. That's where things are headed.

We also know that Germany is building methane terminals at sea ports to import LNG and that it is turning to its allies.

Did Canada commit to increasing its LNG exports to Germany, yes or no?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

This is an important relationship, and I think the best answer is that I'm working closely with the Minister of Natural Resources, who is taking quite a lead on this, and that this work continues.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

In other words, at this stage, you have made no such commitment to the German vice-chancellor. That's what I take from your answer, but correct me if I'm wrong.

On October 14, your colleague, the Deputy Prime Minister was in Washington, and she said that Canada should support LNG because it was an important transition fuel for countries in Europe. Is that the government's official position?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

What I would say is that this work with Germany—indeed, with all of our friends and allies—is exceedingly important. Energy and energy security and clean energy are absolutely a commitment. I think you'll see that of our government. This work is a priority, and it continues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 40 seconds.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

I'll repeat my question.

While in Washington, the Deputy Prime Minister said that she considered LNG to be an important transition fuel. Is that Canada's official position?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I would say that energy security and providing good, clean energy to our colleagues and allies are top priorities of our government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Collins, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I've spoken to many of my constituents who are concerned about the need for a comprehensive mandatory human rights due diligence law to compel businesses to respect human rights standards in their global operations and supply chains. There are documented examples that link Canadian mining, energy and garment industries, and other industries and their suppliers, to human rights abuses and environmental damage around the world.

The Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise, the CORE, currently lacks the power to compel testimony or the submission of documents, so they can't effectively investigate allegations of human rights abuses linked to Canadian companies. Voluntary measures have really proven ineffective in preventing these kinds of human rights abuses and environmental destruction. I'm curious where you stand, as minister, on empowering the Office of the Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise with the independence and the power to investigate human rights abuses and allegations and on enacting the kind of comprehensive human rights due diligence law that would compel businesses to respect international human rights standards.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Let me start by saying that standing up for human rights and advocating for that around the world is absolutely a core tenet of how Canada trades around the world. The CORE is one part of this, but so is the national contact point, and so is the strengthened responsible business conduct strategy. They all need to work hand in hand. That's precisely why we strengthened this strategy.

I've had conversations with many of the companies across Canada as well. The expectation is really clear: You will operate internationally with those standards for human rights and for responsible business conduct around the world in the same way that you operate here. We have tools at our disposal to ensure that companies are doing that.

I'm pleased at what the CORE is doing. She is fully funded and her office is set up. She has a team that is looking at complaints. They've started—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Is there any openness to changing the structure, just to allow for that power to investigate and for independence?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

We've been working with the CORE very diligently to be sure that she's able to do both things—that she's supported in delivering her mandate and that she's also doing the other piece, which is to make sure that these violations don't happen in the first place. That work is ongoing. So far, she and I are working together, and we're working in the context of the broader RBC strategy. I would say that it's good, based on the complaints that she's been able to look at and the work that she's able to do to ensure that there is prevention.