Evidence of meeting #83 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
November 23rd, 2023 / 12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses for joining us online or in the room today.
I'll start with the Pork Council first, if that's okay. I'm hoping I can still get over to Mr. Dal Ferro with some questions as well.
To either Mr. Heckbert or Mr. Roy, have you heard of Bill C-234?
Executive Director, Canadian Pork Council
We have heard of Bill C-234. We are in support of the original bill. We think it's going to be vital for farmers to help control their costs. Frankly, if we can control costs on the farm, it will also help grocery costs in Canada. It actually has an impact all the way through the value chain.
Yes, we're supportive, and yes, we've heard of it.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
You guys belong to the Agriculture Carbon Alliance, so I'm glad you've heard about it.
Trade is supposed to be about trade. I think I heard that said by all three witnesses here. I'll give this back to the Pork Council.
With the context of Bill C-234, which is currently being delayed in the Senate and which removes the carbon price on farmers, would you not agree that the carbon tax has a negative impact on food prices and supply chains in Canada?
Chair, Canadian Pork Council
Yes, we do agree that it has had a negative impact. On top of that, we also have to face a challenge in our trade when we are competing with other countries that do not have these kinds of taxes.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Now when we look at this particular agreement, which does have the carbon pricing as part of it, do you not agree that it could be damaging to Ukraine's rebuilding efforts by having similar carbon pricing measures?
Chair, Canadian Pork Council
It will have an impact on inflation for sure. We know it will also have an impact on their consumers. It is certainly a challenge for all consumers when we have additional taxes or fees on the production side.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
You said “impact”, but just to be clear you mean a negative impact. Is that correct?
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Perfect.
Mr. Dal Ferro, you spoke here today earlier about what could happen to the cheese market here in Canada. I believe the latest numbers—someone correct me if I'm wrong—show that about 1.4 million Ukrainian Canadians are at risk of not being able to have cheese from their country in the lead-up to Christmas and into the new year. You mentioned there might have to be some difficult decisions made in the next six weeks.
Can you lay out for us what the worst-case scenario of that could possibly be?
President, Finica Food Specialties Limited
The difficult decisions we are facing at the moment are the uncertainties of the allocation models of the TRQs. The most imminent concern we have is the status of the U.K.
As I mentioned earlier, the cheese letters expire on December 31, 2023. Either we get an extension of the cheese letters effective January 1, or we revert to the WTO non-EU quota, which is the most highly utilized of all of the quotas. We now have the United States, Switzerland and Norway in that group, which are already highly developed exporters to Canada.
That is a concern, sir.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
You mentioned that there would have to be some difficult decisions if we do revert. What would those decisions be? For context, what would be that worst-case scenario?
President, Finica Food Specialties Limited
You had mentioned Ukraine earlier. I had to forgo the opportunity because of the uncertainty of the U.K. situation. If by chance we do not get an extension of the cheese letters effective January 1, I will have to make some—I'm divulging some personal strategic initiatives here—decisions on my British cheese portfolio coming to Canada.
That may also unfortunately result in lost jobs in my organization.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Loss of jobs would be the worst-case scenario.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Liberal
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Interestingly, we're talking about a carbon tax but I just want maybe to remind everyone that we also know that it has been part of the agreement since 2011, carbon pricing or a price on pollution has been part of this agreement since 2011. I also understand that, in November 2018, the parliament in Ukraine decided to steadily increase the carbon tax rate from January 2019 onward. It's already been part of this initiative.
I also wanted to add that unfortunately yesterday we witnessed the Conservatives voting against the free trade agreement between Canada and Ukraine. I heard the head of the Canada-Ukraine Chamber of Commerce stating yesterday how disappointed he was to see Conservatives vote against free trade and the agreement with Ukraine. He asked, “Why would you block [the free trade agreement] when you know your Canadian companies also will get more contracts, more jobs, more involvement in Ukraine?”
Therefore, it's important that we continue to focus this study to make sure this agreement goes forward and gives economic opportunities to businesses and workers. I reiterate that we stand with Ukraine—Canadian workers, our businesses—by what we say, by what we do and by how we vote in the House of Commons and even here in committee.
My question goes to all of the witnesses here today. I would like to know if you would agree with the head of the Canada-Ukraine Chamber of Commerce.
Mr. Dal Ferro, would you like to start?
President, Finica Food Specialties Limited
We support the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement and I think, from the cheese-importing perspective, the quickest way for us to find immediate solutions is to reinstate the supply-managed sector into the goods remission order. That would help accelerate our opportunity to bring fine Ukrainian cheese to Canada.
Liberal
Legislative Staff Representative, United Steelworkers Union
As I stated during my opening remarks, we would like to see the ISDS section removed, but with that change, we do support the agreement.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Thank you.
For those online, I don't know which one of you or maybe both of you want to answer. I'll let you decide.
Chair, Canadian Pork Council
We do support the Ukrainian trade agreement, of course making sure that non-tariff trade barriers continue to be removed or are outside of this agreement.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Thank you.
My next question is trying to look at this timeline. If we move forward now with this trade deal, would this help in any way to increase exports or, for Mr. Dal Ferro, to boost imports?
I'll start with Mr. Soule, then Mr. Dal Ferro and then those online.
Legislative Staff Representative, United Steelworkers Union
Certainly right now there are some challenges with the trade. We have some concerns with some dumping of steel coming out of Ukraine right now, so anything that formalizes those agreements could certainly be helpful.
President, Finica Food Specialties Limited
Thank you for your question.
With respect to dairy, unless we activate an agreement to have a tariff for Ukrainian cheese, or unless we reinstate supply-managed goods into the goods remission order, we will have to rely on WTO non-EU, which is already the most utilized of all the quotas, making it very difficult to import cheese from Ukraine.
