International Trade Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[Bruce Rodgers]

We didn't address essential services in our opening remarks. We are very neutral on the process. We understand there are matters to be negotiated on both sides. Our position is that we just want an agreement. We want the parties back at work. We don't take the side of labour, and we don't take the side of the company in this case.

From our perspective, we want constructive negotiations to occur. In certain cases, we feel that as long as they're negotiating in good faith—we mean both sides negotiating in good faith—we think the process should continue. It's when there are issues and negotiations are not occurring in that manner, that we believe there should be some intervention to get the parties back to the table to conclude a settlement.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Rodgers, I'll address you again.

If I understand correctly, one day on strike puts a company six days behind, I believe. That's what you said earlier.

This strike, which was settled after 13 days, put things three months behind schedule.

After that strike, the economy didn't return to normal. Business owners continue to suffer losses.

Can you tell me how much the strike has cost? Do you have any figures on that?

[Bruce Rodgers]

Unfortunately, we don't have that level of information on how that would affect each importer or exporter from a business perspective.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

It's had a huge impact on small businesses. I think they were hit hardest.

Can you tell me if a lot of small businesses closed down after that 13-day strike?

[Bruce Rodgers]

I think you're going to see some impact. I don't have the numbers on how many companies have gone out of business as a result of this, but there are significant impacts to the import community. We'll talk about imports at this point in time. When you have that disruption on the vessels being off-loaded and on moving that cargo inland, for the most part there is an impact. There is an impact not only in terms of the delays in transit but also significant demurrage and detention charges on the import community by the ocean carriers.

We have seen cases and we have had charges in the millions of dollars for delays in containers being returned due to the fact that we have this labour disruption and the resulting inland congestion. It just compounds from that perspective.

I don't have specific numbers of dollars impacted or companies that have gone out of business, but there is an impact.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

My next question is for Ms. Martin.

We do a lot of exporting in your field, which is meats.

When a strike like this happens, what is your second option?

Do you choose another port?

[Lauren Martin]

Yes, that would be the other option. It would be to explore alternative routes, which of course—as you can rightly imagine—would come with costs and the potential perishing of goods that don't make it on time due to the lengthier routes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have seven seconds remaining.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We go now to Mr. Miao for five minutes.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

I'd like to go back a little bit. Before the strike happened at the port of Vancouver, as we know, postpandemic there was a huge impact on the supply chain due to the pandemic. I remember a stakeholder in my riding of Richmond Centre telling me that a cargo container was costing more than $10,000.

Since the strike began in July, are we still looking at the impact of the recovery from the pandemic?

Maybe Mr. Ballantyne or Mr. Rodgers can share some comments with us on that.

[Robert Ballantyne]

Yes, I'll start.

The information on that is always somewhat variable, and it may vary from company to company or industry to industry.

One of our member companies indicated that for that 13-day strike, there was about a 14-week impact in total. Because things have to start changing several weeks in advance, a lot of companies will start making alternative arrangements before a strike, because they want to be prepared in case the strike happens. Then, as has been stated previously, there is the time to recover from the actual strike. I think Bruce mentioned that there was something like a week for every day of a strike, something along those lines. That seems to be the general consensus.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

I'll go to Mr. Rodgers online.

[Bruce Rodgers]

In answer to your question, I think we are out of the pandemic catch-up phase—I'll put it that way—due to a number of different factors, but inflationary constraints on consumer spending habits have changed significantly. People now moving toward goods and on to other services has had an impact as well, but in answer to your question, we are largely out of the pandemic catch-up at this point in time.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

One of the reasons why the strike occurred was also concern about automation at the port of Vancouver. The International Longshore and Warehouse Union has stated that this will result in job losses.

Maybe to go back to you, Mr. Ballantyne, can you share your perspective and maybe comment a bit on how automation will affect and have impacts on our future trade?

[Robert Ballantyne]

That's a pretty general question, and looking into the future isn't particularly easy.

There will always be a need for longshore workers. I think we can say that no matter what happens with the possibility of more automation, but like almost every business, there are changes in technology and the changes in technology often lead to improvements in productivity.

I think it would be reasonable for the terminal operators and the port authorities and so on to be looking at the sensible introduction of technology. Hopefully, that would make the productivity of the longshore workers better.

I can't give a more precise answer than that.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Rodgers, can you comment a bit about the automation piece?

[Bruce Rodgers]

Yes. I'm going to be as neutral as Mr. Ballantyne on this one as well. It's difficult for us to comment on, but as Mr. Ballantyne indicated, we have to keep up. We need to improve efficiencies overall, and we have to be a very productive port.

A comment was made earlier about the ranking of the port of Vancouver. That's a significant telltale sign that we are not keeping up, and there are a lot of things we could do to improve that performance overall.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

Last week—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 14 seconds.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Okay. I'll pass. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We'll go on to Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Murray, I want you to talk again about the importance of implementing the anti‑scab bill as quickly as possible and not waiting 18 months.

What would be the consequences of waiting 18 months?

[Michel Murray]

Scabs could be used again in any dispute, whether it be a strike or a lockout affecting workers under federal jurisdiction.

That's what we're currently seeing at the Port of Québec.

At the risk of repeating myself, the employees of Quebec Saint-Laurent, or QSL, have now been locked out for 14 months. They're going to spend a second Christmas on the picket lines, and scabs have been doing their job for the last 14 months.

If the goal is to soften labour relations and to create winning conditions for everyone so that the parties reach an agreement as quickly as possible, the anti‑scab bill should come into force immediately after it receives royal assent.

The special act, An Act to provide for the resumption and continuation of operations at the Port of Montreal, came into force immediately after royal assent.

So I don't see why 18 months are needed to implement such fundamental provisions for workers under federal jurisdiction.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you.

As part of this study, we are also looking at port-related innovations that could contribute to efficiency and performance.

Your colleague from the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade told us during his last appearance that he was concerned about the impact of automating port operations, which could also have an impact on jobs.

Can you tell us if there are any concerns about automation, which seems inevitable in the medium term?