International Trade Committee on March 19th, 2024

[Mike Leahy]

There were six phases of software testing, and one of the phases was focused just on the CBSA cyber-team. Deloitte would put up the product without telling them what they were doing or exposing what the techniques were, and they hacked the product over a series of weeks to try to see if they could break it. We had reviews of that approach to make sure it met cyber-requirements, and we signed off on its ability to meet a standard for cybersecurity.

One of the six cycles of testing was focused specifically on cybersecurity. If it goes down, there is a process for bringing it back up. This team has 170 folks on team Deloitte who are ready, particularly around launch, to look at its support to say, “If it goes down, here's how we'll get it back into the field.” That support model consists of going past May.

Regarding the tolerance we're showing during the transition from the legacy system to CARM, we're showing the community the process for an outage period: how we would suspend certain functions and allow the business process to continue to flow.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes, please.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Gallivan, once again, please answer my question with a yes or no.

You said there are internal documents detailing the functional technical specifications. Are there any that include the comments made about those specifications?

[Ted Gallivan]

Yes, there are.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Great.

Is there a document establishing the link between the detailed functional technical specifications of the system and the business needs, as set out in the initial statement of work?

[Mike Leahy]

Yes, there is one.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Perfect, thank you.

Is there a document showing that the agency considers that the requirements have been met?

[Ted Gallivan]

There is one, and a third party has reassured us on that. So we have at least two reports by third parties confirming that.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Do you agree to submit those two documents, unredacted, to the committee before April 8, and if redaction is necessary, to limit it as much as possible? Further, do you agree to send an unredacted version to the parliamentary law clerk?

[Ted Gallivan]

I am not a lawyer and my only concern is the following: I am not sure I am in a position to authorize measures relating to redaction. As for the rest, yes, we agree to that. The only constraint is that I am not a lawyer specialized in that area.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

If an unredacted version is sent to the law clerk, we will not have access to it.

[Ted Gallivan]

I understand.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Can you also provide to the committee before April 8 the list of all deliverables, signed or not, along with their status as to whether or not they have been signed?

[Ted Gallivan]

By “deliverables” do you mean “contracts”?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

The documents, yes, the contracts.

[Ted Gallivan]

Are you talking about tax authorizations?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I am referring to all the deliverables for the system.

[Mike Leahy]

Yes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Perfect, thank you.

Can you also submit the internal final report on the CBSA's most recent CARM experience simulation as soon as it is ready?

[Ted Gallivan]

Yes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Perfect.

Madam Chair, I want to thank the witnesses for their undertaking. That said, to make sure it actually happens, I would like to table a motion that will be distributed. Would you like me to read it out?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes, please do that.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Great, thank you. The motion will be distributed in both languages, of course.

Given that the Canada Border Services Agency is currently working to implement an official computerized registration system for the application of international trade policies relating to commercial duties and taxes for importers and supply chain partners specifically named “CBSA Assessment and Revenue Management” (CARM) and that this new system will come into effect for all on May 13, 2024: That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee A. requests the Canada Border Services Agency to produce, in both official languages, an unredacted copy of: a. the deliverable listing the detailed functional technical specifications, as well as any comments provided by the Agency concerning these specifications; b. the deliverable establishing the link between the detailed functional technical specifications of the system and the business needs, as mentioned in the initial Statement of Work; c. all documents demonstrating which business needs from the Statement of Work the Agency considers to be met by the current solution; d. a list of all deliverables, signed and unsigned, and their status as to whether or not they have been signed; e. the Internal Final Report of the most recent CARM Experience Simulation as soon as it is ready, provided that the documents are filed with the Clerk of the Committee no later than 15 days following the adoption of this motion; and B. once the documents in A have been received by the members of the Committee that, if it is not possible to send an unredacted copy to the Committee for a valid reason, they be forwarded directly to the Parliamentary Law Clerk who will then give his opinion on the need for redaction to the Committee; and C. once the documents in A have been received by the members of the Committee, that the Committee invite the President of the Canada Border Services Agency to testify for a 2-hour meeting, in order to answer the Committee's questions about these documents.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

This is open to debate at this point.

Does anybody wish to review or discuss it? It's a lot. How about we hold it down for the end of the meeting.

Yes, Mr. Seeback.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

It is a detailed motion. I do support it, but we have the government officials here today. It's important that we hear from them and not get into a lengthy debate.

Could we, perhaps, put this over until Thursday and deal with it at Thursday's meeting? That is unless the government is prepared to accept it, which I recommend they do. Then we could just have it done and be done with it. I don't want to have the committee interrupted with debate.