Evidence of meeting #16 for International Trade in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was goods.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Right. However, if you've been sent here to the committee to talk about forced labour, I would assume that you would know what's happening in the department on forced labour or know when that's being discussed with the minister.
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Madam Chair, we've certainly provided information, notes within the system, about where they go and who they brief.
I really couldn't comment on any advice that's been provided to the minister or any documentation that may or may not have made it to his desk.
Conservative
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm not personally aware of anything.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
That's fine.
I noticed in the departmental report, or the strategic plan, that it talks about some relationship you have with ESDC. I won't ask you to explain that today, but I would request that you provide in writing to this committee, if possible, how you interact with ESDC, as well as a list of other departments that you also interact with across the government, regarding forced labour. Finally, could you provide the number of reports you got last year from ESDC about concerns that were flagged? Are those things you could provide to the committee?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
We can certainly provide those.
I would just very quickly say that I did respond on the briefing to the minister in my capacity at CBSA, but the minister himself obviously has a portfolio, including my colleague who works for Public Safety Canada proper, so I would consider my answer as a partial answer and not as a whole answer. There may be other things in the system as well.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
We'll wait for anyone in the department to tell us the last time they briefed the minister on forced labour.
I'll yield the rest of my time to my friend in the Bloc.
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
Thank you.
Roughly how much time do I have? I'd like to know before I get started.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
You have one minute and 20 seconds, but we'll give you one minute and 50 seconds. We just talked for a second there.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
That's very generous of you, Madam Chair.
This question is for the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development official.
The Americans have been very clear that Canada is a weak link in the effort to ban forced labour. They say so openly as well as behind closed doors. It is also important to keep in mind the geopolitical game that's been going on between the U.S. and China's leadership for a while now.
Are you worried that that view will hurt trade relations between Canada and the U.S.?
Do you think it erodes the Americans' confidence?
Director General, Trade Strategy Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Madam Chair, the committee may appreciate that I'm not in a position to comment on the United States' policies or the reasons for those policies.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
I'm going to have to ask another question. I thought you would have more to say.
Why is Canada taking so long to put due diligence measures in place when so many other countries are doing it?
I'm sure you're going to say that we are responsible for that and that it's a political matter.
Director General, Trade Strategy Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Madam Chair, the member speaks to the important role parliamentarians have in terms of the legislative agenda. We're not in a position to comment on the legislative agenda.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC
My last question is for the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness official. Again, I'm not asking you to tell me what you think or whether you're for or against the legislation I proposed, Bill C‑251.
Under the bill, your department would be responsible for designating at-risk countries or areas, establishing a list of problematic entities, as is the case under the U.S. model, and reviewing the list every five years.
Objectively speaking, does the department have the capacity to do that?
Director, Community Safety, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Madam Chair, this is something that I can't comment on at this time.
Bloc
Director, Community Safety, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
We would need to assess any authorities.
Liberal
Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I may have some extra time at the end. I can cede some of it to Simon-Pierre.
My questions are about those 48 shipments that we had coming in. Are the importers of that material red-flagged? Those are the importers who were importing the material that was coming in via those 48 shipments.
Executive Director, Commercial Programs Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
The basis for those detentions would have been the exporter or the supply chain. It would not have been the importer. The detention would have taken place regardless of who the importer was.
Moving forward, if the goods detained are found to have incorporated forced labour, those goods are prohibited. At no point does that necessarily mean the importer is red-flagged. The exporter in that supply chain is. If that importer were to try to bring in more goods from that same exporter from that same supply chain, yes, there's a high degree of certainty that those goods would be detained a second time, but not necessarily as a function of who the importer is. It's who the exporter is, who the supply chain is, and the fact that there's forced labour in that supply chain. The importer itself really doesn't have a role, necessarily, in terms of risking.
Liberal
Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON
The importer may be importing again from that same region.
Executive Director, Commercial Programs Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Exactly.
Liberal
Executive Director, Commercial Programs Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
It may be something that we would look at. There are lots of hypotheticals.
If an importer has a history of importing from a given region or given entities, and those entities have been identified as having forced labour within their supply chains, yes, there's a high likelihood that those goods would be detained. However, it's not necessarily a function of who the importer is. It's a function of what those supply chains are and who they're buying from.
Liberal
Peter Fonseca Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON
Once those ships have been released and they're off to another port, do they go back to their home port where the material came from, or are they trying to transship through some other port? Is there a network where everybody is informed about a particular ship?