Thank you.
Minister, we need to be tough on crime, no question about that, but we also need to be smart about crime, and if we're going to propose new criminal justice measures they have to be evidence-based.
You're citing some Stats Canada stuff, but I'm looking at the Stats Canada report that says Canada's crime rate, based on data reported by police services, fell 1% last year. Violent crimes fell. Robberies with a firearm continue to decline. I don't want to get into a futile exchange of statistics, but let me just say that you can't come back to this committee with Bill C-9 and Bill C-10 unless you have an evidence-based case that justifies it. This side of the House is unconvinced by your numbers, with due respect. Also, we can't base public policy on the basis of perception. We have to have some evidence base to justify the measures you propose. The case, with respect, is simply not proven on the basis of the Statistics Canada stuff I've got.
The second issue I'd raise is that my constituents in Etobicoke--Lakeshore are as concerned about crime as your constituents in Winnipeg, but they want a balanced approach, Minister, and I'm questioning whether there is balance here. Is there enough real investment in crime prevention? Is there enough investment in youth justice programs that avoid incarceration wherever possible?
What I see in this basic strategy is an excessive emphasis on incarceration. So there are two questions. Number one, do you have, in discussion with the public safety minister, some clear numbers about what are the financial implications of the necessary expansion in correctional services that are going to be required? I don't think we've heard a clear answer to that question. What is this going to cost, Minister? Number two, can you assure that we've got balance here? You seem to be relying almost exclusively on incarceration.
If I could introduce one personal note, I spent three years in a maximum security prison every Tuesday night doing volunteer work. The conclusion I drew from being in a maximum security prison--and no one is less soft on crime than me--is that an exclusive reliance on incarceration makes almost everybody who goes through the system worse. You're going to have to convince the public that an exclusive reliance on increased incarceration is actually going to solve the problem you want to solve. And on the evidence that I've seen, the case is just not proven.