Justice Committee on Feb. 5th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

I wanted to check with your time first, of course.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Okay. I am due at another committee, but if we could perhaps confine it to five minutes, Mr. Chairman, I think that would be fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Five minutes.

Mr. Thompson, you have a question you wanted to pose, and then Mr. Lee immediately after, moving right along.

[Myron Thompson, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

First of all, I want to congratulate you, sir, on your appointment, and I wish you the very best in your tasks.

I was also very pleased to hear you state that it's good to have the police input on these committees you've talked about. I certainly support that highly, because they are part of our legal system.

I'm quite concerned about another group of people, and I'm just going to throw this out there. You can comment any way you like, because it really isn't a question. Last week there was a decision made in a court in Calgary--and our chairman would be aware of that--where the victim was knifed to death and then his body was dismembered and scattered wherever. The courts determined that it was manslaughter and not murder, and the victims are highly upset over this. Immediately the phones started ringing, and people like me were asked what we were going to do about these blankety-blank judges and their decisions in these types of cases.

The group I'm talking about are victims. There are thousands of victims out there who belong to organizations. They're grouped, they're working together to try to bring about a system that answers their pleas more than what has been happening in the past.

No one can deny that we have a lot of people out there, those who pay the bills to keep the legal system going, who would like to see some good justice, and they feel it's not happening. I'm just wondering if they shouldn't also have some input in some of these decisions.

We've talked about the judiciary and we've talked about the police. How about the victims? I really put a high emphasis on their portion and the role they play in this whole criminal aspect.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Thompson.

In the premise to your question, you mentioned a case. I don't make any comment about cases that are before the court.

But you would be aware that in the last election our party promised a victims ombudsman. I believe that is a step in the right direction, in making sure the rights of victims are heard within our system.

I'm keeping it short, Mr. Chairman. I believe Mr. Lee would like to have a question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Mr. Lee.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you for the additional time, Minister, and congratulations on your appointment.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you very much.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

You won't be a stranger to any of these issues.

I want to first express regret with the decision of your predecessor not to consult with Parliament, with this committee, which has done a significant amount of study on judicial appointments over the last few years. It was conspicuous, and it is regrettable that in the appointment of the judiciary, which of course is unelected, the minister couldn't have taken some time to check with Parliament to see the lie of the land.

In any event, I want to give a second congratulations to Mr. Bachand for trying to articulate, as a non-lawyer, something I know the minister will be familiar with, and that is that police could not be chosen as members of a jury, as the police are not impartial; they are not disinterested.

I'm wondering how you respond to what I will say now. The government has chosen to put police, when they're not disinterested--as between the crown and an accused--on the committee that will play a major role in the selection of judges. What about this concept of picking a judge who will decide on police cases in the future? That, to me, gives an appearance of interest, of partiality, of trying to balance something that wasn't broken. Could you comment on that appearance, articulated by Mr. Bachand and restated by me? Please tell us what was so broken that it had to be fixed.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

First of all, with respect to your comment, which is quite correct, a police officer cannot serve on the jury. That's just one of the functions of the system of law we have, that none of the lawyers who also serve on the judicial advisory committee could serve on a jury, nor could the judge who sits on the committee. The judges themselves, of course, are precluded. So all the members on a judicial advisory committee will never have that opportunity. I believe it even extends to their spouses, if I'm not mistaken. None of them will be...because of their involvement. I think you hit upon it. They're all very involved with the judicial system in this country. They all play different roles. I believe they all play an important role, but none of them will be able to serve on a jury.

That being said, I believe all of them have a positive contribution to make. These committees have worked well. It doesn't mean a committee can't be improved. And it doesn't mean the minister can't get additional input into the use of his or her discretion. I think that's what we have here.

I don't look at it, as some people have suggested, as some sort of an adversarial system, or that one group is more interested in justice in this country as opposed to another. I don't agree with that. I believe, in a sense, we're all in this together. Certainly all those individuals who serve on a judicial advisory committee I believe have, should have, and will continue to have the best interest of the judicial system of this country. And I believe it will work very well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Thank you, Mr. Lee.

Thank you, Minister, for attending the committee.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

My pleasure. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

The meeting is now adjourned.