Thank you.
I'd like to commend the parliamentary secretary for his attitude at this time. I think that's the way Parliament should work, discussing how we can work together to get something productive done.
I also think, as he said, it would be good to know. If the bill is going to either pass or fail and that's decided, we don't need to spend a lot of time on debates. So I think it's good having this discussion at the beginning and finalizing it. And what people have said in the past I don't think always determines the ultimate outcome—as you can see, for instance, on income trusts.
I think our job as a committee and the reason we have expert witnesses—and we had a long procedure here, as Ms. Jennings said, a very detailed procedure—What parliamentarians have to do in the final outcome is the right thing. As you know, we're dealing with dozens of bills just in the justice committee, let alone in Parliament. The way we find the answer to things is to have expert witnesses come and tell us things, and then, based on that, we make our decision as parliamentarians on what's best for Canadians.
I think any rational person who listened to the witnesses who came here, witness after witness after expert witness, heard them say these mandatory minimums, as Ms. Jennings said, first of all, don't work, and secondly, can be counterproductive and can produce more criminals under certain circumstances.
This bill does not make it any tougher on crime or on people with guns, because the maximums are not being increased. So whether or not this bill is passed, the judge will still have the same severity of punishment that he can give. It's not being increased. There is nothing more severe he can give. He can still give the maximum penalty when it's warranted to protect the citizens.
As one person said during the debates, they've never seen a bill that had so much scientific and knowledgeable opposition to it, so I would find it unconscionable as a member of Parliament to actually totally ignore that opposition and vote for the concept. I came into the committee with an open mind at the beginning, but doing my job as a parliamentarian and listening to the evidence, there's no possibility that I could support the concept.