Justice Committee on March 21st, 2007

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

I'm sure that the minister is going to take that information and look at it as it's put before him.

Minister, your time is actually up. I know there are one or two more questioners on my list here. Do you have time to continue?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

If you want to do that, let's do them. That would be great.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, for coming here to present Bill C-22 to us.

I don't know if I should direct my question to you or to Ms. Morency. As you know, for nearly three years, prostitution rings operated in the Quebec City area. The young women involved were dominated by certain groups of men, specifically rapper groups where members were barely five or six years older than the victims. When the trials began, it was very difficult to get these young girls to testify for various reasons: they were gang raped, they were in love with the person who got them into prostitution, and so on. I'd like to know if Bill C-22 will have an impact on section 212 of the Criminal Code. Basically, this provision is problematic because we're encountering a number of problems with prostitution rings. Will Bill C-22 afford young people better protection, given the problems encountered with section 212, even when the victims are 18 years of age? Young women are afraid to testify, among other things.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Again, Monsieur Petit, the facilitating, the support of witnesses in a criminal proceeding is many times a challenge.

One thing I think this bill does is bring some clarity to the offence that is being talked about. We won't get into discussions with, for instance, a 14-year-old—whether the 14-year-old consented, for instance—because if the individual is 20 years of age or more, it is an offence to have any sexual activity with that individual. So we won't have the extra hurdle that takes place in a courtroom, which presently exists, where the accused can make the claim that the 14- or 15-year-old consented to that and then that becomes an issue. That becomes one of the great challenges, quite frankly, for police, crown attorneys, and those who are interested in protecting children.

So bringing this kind of clarity to that particular issue, I think, is one of the major benefits of Bill C-22. To that extent, it will be welcomed in communities across this country that are quite worried about the sexual exploitation of children at that age.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

I have another question for you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Go ahead.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Moving along, if I understand correctly, Bill C-22 is truly beneficial because by changing the age of consent, we're preventing section 212 from being used as a defence. For example, in the past, when the john was arrested, he could argue that he thought the young women was of a certain age, that he had requested identification, and so on. These excuses were often used. If I understand correctly, this would be an improvement, because a provision in the bill will afford more protection to young women.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I don't want to leave you with any misapprehension, Monsieur Petit. The section you are referring to is the prostitution section of the code. It of course will remain in effect, and the age is 18 under the prostitution section.

This goes back to what I was saying earlier, that 16 is not the only age that is specified in sexual offences in the Criminal Code. You just identified one. I can go back to my earlier comments that in terms of prosecuting these, I'm quite certain that bringing some clarity to that age group of 14- to 15-year-olds will be welcomed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Thank you, Mr. Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you for this improvement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

You have one other question, Mr. Thompson.

[Myron Thompson, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

This is a true life situation, because I lived with part of it, being a school administrator and attached to the families. A 15-year-old boy ran off with a 27-year-old woman. They came back from Nevada married. How would this law apply in that kind of situation?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

If there's any sexual activity involved, it's very clear that it's against the law, because 27-year-olds cannot and should not be involved with 15-year-olds, and they can be charged under this piece of legislation. It's as simple as that, no matter where you run off to, in your words, Mr. Thompson.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Thank you, Minister, for your appearance here.

I think that concludes our session with the minister. If the committee will stay put, we will go in camera to deal with some committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]