Evidence of meeting #57 for Justice and Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
I'll try to be really brief.
If you don't have an opportunity to respond, because we only have three to four minutes before the committee adjourns, I'd ask that you respond in writing.
The first point is that the age of consent is 18 for a number of sexual activities. It criminalizes a number of sexual activities--exploitive sex, etc.--in the Criminal Code. I think a certain amount of your concern is that regardless of the age of consent, whether it's 14, 15, or 16 years, there's a whole section where if you're under 18, the individual is over 18, and it's exploitive, it's criminal activity. I think that should remove a major part.
One of the things I'm hearing on the issue is that there will no longer be any kind of discretion on the part of the judge when the age difference is five years or more. You've witnessed cases where there is a sexual relationship and the age difference is five years or more, and in your expert opinion, given the work you do, it's not exploitive and the older individual should therefore not be criminalized.
My question to you is this. If there were some way to amend Bill C-22 to ensure there is still a certain level of discretion for judges to actually look at the nature of the relationship, and if they deem it's not sexually exploitive and would therefore not criminalize the older person, would that provide a level of comfort? That's the first question.
Secondly, in terms of harmonizing the age of consent for all kinds of sexual activity regardless of the age level—and I'm talking about section 159—we've been told it's outside the scope of the law as it has been presented here. It would literally mean the government would have to do it themselves through another bill--and I'm sure they would get agreement on from the opposition to hopefully fast-track it--or through a private member's bill, in which case it probably wouldn't see the light of day for months, if not for years.
You might want to again ask the government to harmonize the age of consent for anal intercourse, because that's what we're talking about. I'm talking to everyone who's in favour of having it harmonized so that we're not discriminating among sexual activities based on sexual orientation.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Art Hanger
There may be someone who wants to respond to that particular point.
I'm going to ask if the witnesses and the members would be willing to stay for a few extra minutes, because there is one other person on my slate here who would like to ask a question. What is the general consensus?
We'll keep on going. Thank you very much.
Go ahead, please, Ms. Kryskow.
Director, Motivated Young People for a Strong Canada
Yes, I'd like to make a comment.
This is an e-mail that came from a parent of one of our members who works in child protection. He said one of the things he was concerned about was the inability for some youth to actually give true testimony because of the overwhelming nature of emotionally being able to relate what they've gone through.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
I understand that Ms. Kryskow would like to read it.
Director, Motivated Young People for a Strong Canada
Oh no, I won't read it.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
But it's not in response to the specific questions I asked.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
I would suggest that if she has an e-mail she would like to share—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Art Hanger
Her question reflects on the issue of what she would call harmonizing all the sexual offences that are in the Criminal Code right now. In other words, for anal intercourse, bring the age down to 16. That's what she's asking.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
If the age of consent is brought up to 16, then bring down the age of—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Art Hanger
It's clearly outside the scope of this particular bill.
Very quickly, Mr. Hasselriis.
Executive Director, Egale Canada
I think the government is putting forward a bill that deals with the age of consent for sex. In section 159 of the Criminal Code, it says the age of consent for anal intercourse is 18.
If you're going to bring forward a bill that deals with the age of protection, as you call it, then I believe very strongly that it should include an amendment. This bill amends various different sections of the Criminal Code. There's no reason it cannot open section 159 and change numbers in the section, in the same way as it simply changes numbers in other sections.
I also don't see why this bill can't include the repeal of section 159. If we're going to deal with the age of consent for youth sexuality, then it should deal with all forms of sexual expression, including anal intercourse, and it shouldn't leave it out. The committee should make sure it happens.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Art Hanger
I'm not sure if anyone else wants to respond to that.
Clearly the section you speak of is outside the scope of this particular bill.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Art Hanger
Because it is. We're dealing with the age of protection.
I'm just advising the member--
Executive Director, Egale Canada
I'm frustrated that this is only coming up at the very end and that we're rushing to finish this. This is an amendment that many of us have called for and suddenly we're hearing, oh, it's outside the scope of the bill, but we can't really explain why.
I feel very strongly that the issue of anal intercourse is very much within the scope of this bill because it's more of a sexual expression that many young people are engaging in. Right now, the way the law stands, they are being criminalized.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Art Hanger
I'll tell you what, sir, I'm sure there's going to be an opposition member here who will present an amendment to this particular bill. It will be ruled upon by the chair of this committee as to whether it's in order or not. I'm sure that it'll happen.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. It's inappropriate for you to make the decision as to whether it's out of order or not until I present that amendment. You're going to hear an argument from me that in fact it is within the scope of this bill.
Conservative
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
My question is for Ms. Tremblay or Ms. Roy.
You talked a lot about the fact that it is necessary to educate youths in the context of Bill C-22. Naturally, at the federal level, we don't interfere much with provincial jurisdictions. You addressed one aspect of evidence, professional secrecy. This issue is usually managed by the provinces, that is to say doctors, priests and, in a wider sense, nurses, psychologists and so on.
You said you were afraid that youths would not consult persons to whom they could disclose their problem, out of fear of being “betrayed” by those persons. You surprise me somewhat. In Quebec, professional privilege is absolutely protected by the Code of Civil Procedure. I would like to know how, in your opinion, a professional could betray the trust of a youth to whom he has provided medical care, for example, even if that youth is of the age in question in Bill C-22.
Spokesperson, Regroupement québécois des Centres d'aide et de lutte contre les agressions à caractère sexuel
We were just talking about what is going to happen in Quebec. This act will apply across Canada, in all provinces, and there will be provisions concerning the information that will be transmissible and the information that is not.
We are relying on Quebec's experience, but we know that this will apply everywhere and that it could have an impact in the other provinces. Lastly, we are concerned about the idea that this could happen.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
But you will agree that professional secrecy is not a problem in Quebec.
Spokesperson, Regroupement québécois des Centres d'aide et de lutte contre les agressions à caractère sexuel
Of course, what we're saying more concerns the people taken in by the organizations we represent. We also take in Aboriginal women and teenagers who come from reserves. You'll tell me that this is Canada, but there's nevertheless a major problem, and that is that Aboriginal teenagers are very reserved when it comes to reporting someone. In their case, confidentiality is very little respected, even by the police departments.
The phenomenon of proximity in Aboriginal communities means that we have to address the situation in a different way. And it's not because it's an Aboriginal environment, in a federal territory, as you like to say, that we won't have a say.
Does that answer your question?