Justice Committee on May 15th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Thank you, Mr. Tremblay.

Back to Ms. Jennings.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Thank you, sir.

Thank you for the clarification, because it's very clear that it applies not only to federal institutions but also to companies that fall under federal jurisdiction.

I would like to bring an amendment to Mr. Ménard's motion. The amendment would be to the very last paragraph, the last line, so that instead of a period after the word “positions”, there would be a comma and the words, “as defined under the Official Languages Act”. The Official Languages Act has several sections that do in fact provide a definition of what strategic positions are, and a working knowledge of the official languages should be required of anyone occupying those strategic positions.

I would move that as a friendly amendment.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

As mover of the motion, I accept this amendment.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

If there's no debate, then I would move the question on the amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

I have—

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

If there's debate on the amendment—

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Could you please repeat the amendment?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

The amendment would be to the very last paragraph, the last line, after the word "positions" there would be a comma and the words "as defined under the Official Languages Act".

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Is there debate?

Mr. Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I understand the spirit of the Official Languages Act. However, in a motion you cannot ask for the Official Languages Act to be applied to positions when it is mentioned that all positions above deputy minister... It is precisely because you saw a gap that you made recommendation 13 at the official languages committee. This is not a recent gap. You saw it, you did not deal with it. So, this gap remains.

You absolutely cannot ask the Minister of Justice or any other authority to apply the Official Languages Act to positions that are not subject to it. That is what I am trying to have you understand. I am not saying the spirit of the motion is not good; it is simply not acceptable. You cannot ask for that. I'm sorry, but I have to say this doesn't look good. You issued a report in May 2005, you saw the problem, but you didn't solve it. You were in power. Stop trying to sweep your problems our way. You are the ones who did not solve the problem.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Come on, Mr. Petit. If we had to draw up a list of all those who don't look good here this morning, we would be here all night.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Monsieur Ménard, order, order.

Are you finished, Mr. Petit?

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Yes, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I will not do the same thing Mr. Cannon did yesterday. It's as though I had never left this committee. I find it ironic that those who speak against this motion are from Quebec. I find that very ironic, if not worse, with all due respect for my colleague across the way.

I have a few years of practice under my belt. It seems to me that Bill 101 in Quebec, which was the Official Languages Act of Quebec, has been butchered on several occasions by the Supreme Court, which essentially stated, and I respect and will always respect the honourable justices of the Supreme Court, that everything must be done to uphold both official languages of Canada where they must be upheld. It seems vital and essential to me that a director of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development appointed in Iqaluit should speak English. It is possible: we could understand that he may not speak French and not understand it. But when you appoint a commissioner who is supposed to help victims of crime in Canada—to my knowledge, Quebec, unfortunately, is still a part of it—we should not even have to ask the question of whether or not this person can speak French. It is essential to me. This is an essential position. What credibility can this person expect to garner in Quebec? None, Mr. Chairman.

I also read my colleague's motion. The colleague who worked all weekend forgot to read a very important bit of legislation, the Canadian Human Rights Act. I would invite him to do so, because we at the Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development are currently studying it. I think this motion could apply in this case.

The amendment also seems interesting to me. I would vote in favour of this amendment and of course in favour of the motion. I would invite my colleagues across the way who are preparing to vote against this motion to think twice about the message they will be delivering to those who are listening to these proceedings in French and listening to us here in French today on both sides of this river.

At this point, Mr. Chairman, many things have been taken away from francophones; some people are preparing to go a lot further. I would urge you to be cautious, colleagues, because the elastic band can only be stretched so far. My colleague across the way may very well have done the research, the fact is that there is one essential point we should not lose sight of, and that is that a disservice is being done to francophones throughout Canada through important strategic appointments. What will it be tomorrow? Will the official languages commissioner only speak French or only speak English?

I agree with my colleague, and this is the only thing I will grant him, that this should apply to both official languages. I would not accept to have someone appointed to a high office in Canada who does not speak English. But you know very well, Mr. Petit, that that would never happen. Can you name one single senior official in Canada who is a unilingual francophone? Well, I can name 10, 20, or 30 who speak only English. I could name some at the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, which I know very well, who only speak English, who are in Quebec and serve aboriginal people in Quebec who only speak French.

Let's stop beating around the bush. This motion and this amendment should be supported and adopted unanimously. Otherwise, I would suggest you turn to Quebec in the coming days to see the type of reaction this receives, proving once again that French is a second-class language in this country.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Thank you.

Mr. Lee.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

Mr. Lemay, I think you were inadvertently mistaken when you said that you could name several senior officials working with aboriginal communities who, from what you said, do not speak French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

That's more debate than it is a point of order.

Mr. Lee.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

We certainly have our share of points of order that are not.

Mr. Chairman, our country has had this debate actually since quite a while ago. Our Parliament has had this debate. Our committees have debated it, and our members have. In many respects, we are reinventing the wheel here. We don't actually have to reinvent the wheel. The principles are contained in the Official Languages Act and in our Constitution.

There have, arguably, been a few appointments that are perceived to be not in keeping with the spirit or the requirements of the Official Languages Act. I don't think we should be spending a lot of time on this. Our Parliament has debated this thing seven ways to Sunday, and our country has. We've successfully resolved it. We've actually gotten through it. There may not be full agreement around the table here on that issue, but I certainly feel that as a country and as a Parliament we have it.

With respect to the motion itself, I would have preferred a motion that referred to both official languages. In the preamble it says, “Whereas respect for the French language should imbue all ministers”, etc. Really, it's both languages for which we should all have respect. I'm going to move an amendment that the preamble reflect both official languages. If I were being consistent I would do the same thing with the body of the resolution, which refers only to French, but the body of the resolution evolves from the appointment of two people who are allegedly unilingual English, so there is some logic in leaving the single reference to French there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

If I may, the preamble really isn't the motion. The motion is what we're debating.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you for your advice, but I take a slightly different view. The preamble sure as hell is part of the motion. It's not part of the body. If I don't like the preamble, I'm not going to vote for it. I'm going to change the preamble because it's part of the motion, unless the committee wants to delete the preamble from the motion.

I'm going to move an amendment now that the first preamble read: “Whereas respect for both official languages” as opposed to “respect for the French language”. I'm going to move that now, and so now we have another amendment on the floor. I'm prepared to put it in writing if necessary.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Point d'ordre.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

It'd better be a point of order, Mr. Ménard, or I'm going to be very unhappy.

Go ahead.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

A point of order, Monsieur Ménard.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

First of all, Mr. Lee, this is my motion, so please allow me to speak to it.

I think the amendment is not in order because it goes against the essence of—