Evidence of meeting #71 for Justice and Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prosecutions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
We're working on the details. We want to do this prudently. We don't want to just go in and ask for $15 million and say—
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
I understand.
When you are in a position, when your request has pretty much been finalized so that you have the breakdown of what the costs are and you need to dip into some of that $15 million that was designated, I'm assuming you will be able to forward it, through the proper channels, to the chair, through the clerk of this committee.
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
We'd first have to go to Treasury Board, before ministers. We go to ministers first.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Will you let us know when you make your request to Treasury Board? Can we get a little letter just saying the request has gone through?
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
It goes before supplementary estimates. That's actually where it will have to show up, so you'll have an opportunity at that stage.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
I understand that, but that's not what I'm asking. When you file your official request with Treasury Board to tap into the $15-million transitional costs, is it possible, is it allowable, for you simply to send a letter to the chair of the committee to inform him that a formal request has been tabled with Treasury Board, period, end stop?
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
I always thought the agenda of Treasury Board was considered a cabinet confidence. That's why I'm hesitating to agree.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Can you verify that and get back to us on whether or not you would be able to do that without violating Treasury Board confidence?
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
I can do that.
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
That's my understanding.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
He'll check and get back to us.
On the $7.8 million recurrent, do you have the breakdown as to what that's for?
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
No, that's in the same situation. As I say, we're doing this prudently. We were just established a few months ago.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Okay, then if you're not in a position to give us the actual breakdown on what the $7.8 million is going to be used for and what the $15 million is going to be used for, how did you arrive at the figure of $15 million? How did the government or whoever it was arrive at $7.8 million?
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
What I'm saying is that we don't have the breakdown to the penny. We have an idea of what we're going to be spending it on. As I mentioned, the $15 million is to cover moving, to cover IMIT, and things of that nature.
Liberal
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Yes.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Is it a violation of cabinet confidence to share those broad lines with this committee?
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
No. I just gave you the broad lines of the $15 million. I'll tell you that the $7.8 million is designed to establish a corporate infrastructure within our new organization.
Liberal
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
When we were part of Justice, as the old Federal Prosecution Service, at that stage, access to information, planning, human resources, finance, and those types of activities were covered by the units within Justice that did those. When we leave, we have to establish our own access to information, ministerial secretariat, human resources, finance,etc. That money is designed to cover those aspects of our operation.
Liberal
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
One of the things I noticed as I was running through the profile in the estimates—you won't need the book, I can assure you all—was the inordinate percentage of staff and focus that you need to take with respect to organized crime. Whereas organized crime only makes up 2% of your overall prosecutions, it makes up 24% of your litigation time, the time you expend on it. Could you just expand on that in terms of why it's so difficult to prosecute and why so much time has to be spent on it?
Acting Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Organized crime cases usually involve a number of accused. They usually follow a lengthy investigation. They usually entail a lengthy trial. There's also an incredible amount of documentation associated with them by way of wiretaps. We often have to be involved in the pre-charge aspect, giving advice to the investigators so that they can ensure that the investigation runs smoothly and they can meet their disclosure obligations under the charter. If they're applying for warrants or wiretaps, we assist them in doing so. That takes resources.
Once the case is ongoing, if you get multiple accused and a trial that is going to last several months, you just can't put one prosecutor on the case. You end up putting two or three prosecutors on the case, working full-time. Ten years ago, perhaps it was rare to have one prosecutor dedicated full-time to a file for a period of several months, but now we'll have sometimes two or three prosecutors dedicated to a trial for a lengthy period of time.
