Mr. Murphy, could I just respond to the more general question? We cannot ignore the conditions in our remand centres. We're not even talking about the penitentiaries. The international human rights code states that presumed-innocent individuals incarcerated by the state, awaiting trial, must be incarcerated in conditions that are above the standards of the regular prisons. We in this room all know that the conditions of overloading, double- and triple-bunking, and non-existent services are there. We cannot ignore this. To take away judges' discretion to seriously consider it and to put a number in doesn't reflect the bigger picture.
To just reflect what you're hearing here, this bill needs to be looked at because there's a bigger picture. You mentioned some things, including a dichotomy in the system. Maybe there is a dichotomy in the system, but you have to look at it and decide what the issue is and see whether we can do something about it.
There is this anecdotal stuff about people wanting to stay in custody to get credit for two for one. I'm sure we could produce a couple, but you don't change the law on the basis of that couple. Most people want to get out and want to get their sentences over with.
That's especially true in relation to some of the institutions. I don't know whether you've ever heard from health officials. The health concerns in some of these institutions, the remand centres, are extraordinarily critical. We ask our correctional staff to manage this; it's impossible to do. The bigger picture is what we're all talking about in our own way.
Was that seven minutes?