Evidence of meeting #29 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was auto.
A recording is available from Parliament.
June 8th, 2009 / 4:10 p.m.
Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
I did at one time have a list. I may well have left it in my office. I did refer to aggravated sexual assault in my opening remarks, and I think that is what you are thinking of.
In the aggravated sexual assault provision, section 273 of the code states that where “a restricted firearm or prohibited firearm is used in the commission of the offence or if any firearm is used in the commission of the offence and the offence is committed for the benefit of, at the direction of, or in association with, a criminal organization”, the maximum is “imprisonment for life” and the minimum is “in the case of a first offence, five years, and...in the case of a second or subsequent offence, seven years”. In all other cases where a firearm is used, the minimum punishment is four years and the maximum punishment is life. So you have a scenario of four years, then five, and then seven, depending on the nature of the case.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Thank you.
We'll go back to Mr. Murphy and then Mr. Comartin. Again, we don't want to extend debate here. I've made the ruling on the amendment.
Mr. Comartin, I'm assuming you're not challenging the ruling of the chair.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
I want to make a comment on its illogical consequences in the face of the bill we have in front of us.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Unfortunately, it's not debatable, so you can challenge it or we move on to debating the amendment itself.
All right. I'll assume the ruling stands.
I'll go then to Mr. Murphy and Mr. Comartin to debate the amendment.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
What we have here I think is a situation where there ought to have been a mandatory minimum for the life aspect. We're picking six--the government amendment picks six--to distinguish it from five years for the fourteen-year offence. What we've already done, if we look at aggravated sexual assault...in that family you have five years for an offence with a weapon, seven years for a second offence with a weapon, and four years for any other aggravated sexual assault mandatory minimum. So in the previous Parliament we already picked a range.
Maybe I'll ask Mr. Moore. The intention here is to distinguish the life maximum offence from the fourteen-year maximum, and make the minimum more severe, as we did with section 273. Is that right?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
Yes, Chair. Number one, there was the anomaly, where for the more serious offence there wasn't a minimum sentence. This is for people dealing in the trafficking of a person under the age of 18, and with the further factors, punishable by a maximum life imprisonment, of kidnapping, of aggravated assault or aggravated sexual assault, or of causing death to the victim during the commission of the offence. We're dealing with a very serious offence.
The spirit of the legislation is to provide a mandatory minimum penalty, and it does in fact do that for the less serious offence, which is punishable by a maximum of fourteen years, a minimum of five years. This mandatory minimum is six years.
We look at the other offences. We've had a five-year minimum for certain gun crimes, escalating to a seven-year minimum for a second offence. There's no escalation in this one; it's the six-year minimum. I think it's quite an appropriate number. It recognizes that there's a difference between the first and the second scenario. There is also no provision for second and third offences, which we had in our previous legislation dealing with gun crime, where it was five, seven, and ten, which was reduced to five, seven, and seven.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
I'm trying to decide whether I should challenge your ruling, Mr. Chair, just so we can--
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Well, you never gave me time. You jumped ahead quite quickly while I was still--
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
--pondering my position. I actually still had the floor, but you cut me off, Mr. Chair. Your decision doesn't make sense. If you look at the bill that's in front of us, in terms of paragraphs (a) and (b), it does not, so I think I'm going to challenge the chair.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Mr. Comartin, we've already been debating the merits of the amendment itself, not the subamendment. You had your opportunity. I gave you time to challenge the chair and there was no response, so I moved on. I said that we were now going to debate the amendment, so the ruling stands and we're going to move on.
Is there any further debate on the amendment itself? Hearing none, I'm going to call the question on the government amendment, G-1. We should have a recorded vote on this.
(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 4)
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
I am asking for a recorded vote on each of the clauses, please.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Mr. Petit, you asked that earlier and I will be following that process.
(Clause 2 as amended agreed to: yeas 7; nays 3)
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Before we move on to clause 3, I'd like to comment on Mr. Comartin's complaint about not having been given an opportunity to challenge the chair. In the future, if I give you a five- or ten-second break to consider it and you need more time, please ask me and I will give you that opportunity. I certainly don't want to shut anyone down from challenging the chair; it's not my role to do that. But I do want these meetings to move along expeditiously. If you can let me know if you're considering whether or not to challenge the chair, I will give you time to do that.
(Clause 3 agreed to: yeas 7; nays 3)
(Clause 4 agreed to: yeas 8; nays 2)
I would like to make a suggestion. There are still four more numbered clauses and then four summarizing clauses. We could do them in an omnibus motion if you wish.
It's been suggested that we do the four numbered clauses as a group. We'll be voting on clauses 5, 6, 7, and 8.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Fast
Clause 4 has already been carried.
(Clauses 5 to 8 inclusive agreed to: yeas 8; nays 2)
(Title agreed to: yeas 7; nays 3)
(Bill as amended agreed to: yeas 7; nays 3)
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
On division.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative