Justice Committee on June 8th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

I call the meeting to order. This is meeting number 29 of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. Today is Monday, June 8, 2009.

You have before you the agenda for today. In the first hour we'll be completing our work on Bill C-268, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (minimum sentence for offences involving trafficking of persons under the age of eighteen years). We'll hear one more witness and then move to clause-by-clause thereafter.

During the second hour we'll hear further witnesses on Bill C-26, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (auto theft and trafficking in property obtained by crime).

As a reminder to everyone in this room, as I mentioned last time, we'd appreciate it if you would turn off your cellphones or set them to vibrate so that we don't disturb the witnesses or the proceedings that are taking place in this room.

We'll begin with our witness on Bill C-268. Superintendent Michel Aubin, welcome back. I understand you have a short opening statement, and then we'll open the floor to questions. The floor is yours.

[Superintendent Michel Aubin, Director, Federal and International Operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for the invitation for us to come here and speak today. If it's okay, I will do my opening remarks both in English and French.

As mentioned, I'm the director of the RCMP's immigration and passport branch at the national headquarters in Ottawa, responsible for the programs of human trafficking and human smuggling. I'm joined today by my colleague, Sergeant Marie-Claude Arsenault of the RCMP Human Trafficking National Coordination Centre.

We are pleased to have the opportunity to speak to you today about human trafficking in Canada and to share with you the considerable efforts of law enforcement in combating this criminal activity.

I would first like to clarify the difference between human smuggling and human trafficking. Human smuggling involves the illegal movement of persons across international borders in exchange for a sum of money. Although the journey may involve dangerous conditions, smuggled persons are usually free to go upon arrival at their destination. When the final destination is reached, the business relationship ends.

Human trafficking involves the transport, recruitment, or harbouring of persons for the purpose of exploitation, generally for the sex industry or forced labour.

Traffickers use various methods to maintain control over their victims, including force, sexual assault, intimidation, threats of violence, physical and/or emotional abuse. As the committee heard from previous witnesses, human trafficking is defined in both the Criminal Code (section 279) and the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (section 118).

It is clandestine in nature, often with fear being inflicted on victims which, in turn, can make their identification difficult.

Human trafficking occurs both across international borders, known as international human trafficking, and within national boundaries, which is referred to as domestic human trafficking.

Human trafficking is all about making money by selling human beings into the sex trade or forced labour. It can involve organized crime, but it may also be conducted by individuals alone. Recent intelligence reports suggest that street gangs are getting more involved in human trafficking for the purposes of recruiting into prostitution-related activities.

Mr. Chairman, the RCMP is committed to combatting human trafficking, both at home and abroad. In 2005 the RCMP established a Human Trafficking National Coordination Centre, referred to as the HTNCC, which operates on behalf of not only the RCMP but all of law enforcement in Canada. The centre develops tools, coordinates national awareness training and anti-trafficking initiatives, develops partnerships, and coordinates intelligence for dissemination amongst law enforcement in Canada.

The RCMP works with municipal, provincial, federal and international partners, government agencies and NGOs to uncover and target human trafficking activities.

Law enforcement strives to identify and rescue victims while investigating suspected traffickers and the criminal organizations that lie behind these activities.

In order to raise awareness of this issue among law enforcement in Canada, NGOs, and the public, in collaboration with its partners, the RCMP has developed a human trafficking awareness video and information package to help identify potential victims as well as their trafficker. The video was included in a human trafficking awareness toolkit that has been distributed nationally to all law enforcement and all RCMP detachments across Canada, as well as to various NGOs, in the fight against human trafficking. The toolkit also contains victim assistance guidelines, posters, a police officer's handbook, pamphlet, and contact card.

A recent human trafficking awareness initiative was the development of a partnership between the RCMP, Crime Stoppers, and Public Safety to provide a platform to encourage the unanimous reporting of suspicious activities that could be linked to human trafficking. The RCMP has provided awareness sessions to Crime Stoppers personnel and is assisting with the development of a protocol for call-takers. Our hope is that the widely recognized Crime Stoppers tip line and the ability to anonymously report suspected cases of human trafficking will encourage the public to call if they have information regarding this activity.

As well, the RCMP has regional human trafficking awareness coordinators in each of its regional investigative teams. The key responsibilities of these coordinators include raising awareness among and developing strong relationships with law enforcement agencies, government agencies, NGOs, and the public, in all provinces and territories. These established networks are critical for police and NGOs to identify and rescue victims of human trafficking.

Members of the Human Trafficking National Coordination Center and these coordinators have traveled extensively across Canada and internationally to raise awareness on human trafficking issues.

Human trafficking can pose many challenges for investigators. Victims of human trafficking generally do not self-identify to law enforcement for various reasons, including fear of repercussions, intimidation, mistrust of authority figures, shame, or they simply may not see themselves as victims. In international cases, these challenges are amplified by cultural and language barriers.

There remains a need to provide more clarity to law enforcement and prosecutors about this topic so that they can recognize both international and domestic human trafficking and when prostitution may, in fact, be human trafficking.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to take this opportunity to set the record straight regarding some RCMP statistics that have been possibly misinterpreted repeatedly. A strategic intelligence assessment was done by the RCMP in 2004, entitled Project Surrender. This report did not result in any substantive Canadian human trafficking statistics. Instead, it provided potential estimates of international human trafficking victims in Canada based on a review of investigations involving other sections of the Criminal Code—for example, kidnapping, prostitution, extortion, human smuggling, and/or the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. These estimates, therefore, simply confirm that there were investigations in Canada that may or may not have had a human trafficking connection.

Since 2007, and reported to the Human Trafficking National Coordination Centre, there have been five cases involving five accused where human trafficking convictions have been secured. In these cases, four victims were under the age of 18 at the time of the offence. The accused were charged with human trafficking and prostitution-related offences, and they received sentences for human trafficking varying between two and seven years. All of the under-age victims were involved in domestic human trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation.

It is significant to note that there are 17 more human trafficking cases already before the courts here in Canada that we have been made aware of. In keeping with the cycle of events when new legislation is adopted, it would appear that momentum is building around awareness, resulting in more charges being laid.

Even with the new legislation, it remains very difficult for us to determine the number of human trafficking victims due to the surreptitious nature of this crime. The RCMP is currently conducting a threat assessment to determine the degree of international human trafficking in Canada. The goal of this threat assessment is to identify criminal organizations involved in human trafficking through intelligence-gathering as opposed to quantifying the number of victims. This will provide law enforcement with a guide to further direct its resources on this issue.

Law enforcement strives to ensure the safety of all Canadians, working within the boundaries of the Canadian legal system. Human traffickers clearly violate the most basic human rights of their victims, and this is an offence that is not tolerated.

Looking forward, the RCMP will focus its activities on the following: continued awareness for all law enforcement, NGOs, and the public; the development of intelligence, at both the domestic and international levels, to better understand the breadth of the problem; the development of investigative tools to support law enforcement engaged in these investigations; and encouragement of partnerships between agencies to promote the most strategic and effective approach to address these issues.

Those, Mr. Chairman, are our opening lines. We welcome the opportunity to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you, Superintendent.

Given the fact that we have only about 20 minutes to go, we'll do a round of five minutes each. We'll begin with Mr. Murphy.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you.

Thank you very much for your testimony. There's something in your submission that's written and not written. I just want to get to the bottom of it. On page 3 of 4, talking about the estimates, in the middle of the page, you say, “...simply confirmed there were investigations...that MAY or MAY NOT have had...”, and then earlier you talk about misinterpretation. Are we concerned here that there has been an underreporting of human trafficking offences for two reasons: one, an offence describing or defining it was only made recently and these studies were done before that; and two, due to the surreptitious—to use your words—nature of the crime? And perhaps thirdly it's because there's such an international context to the crime that it's difficult to report. Are you writing like that mainly because you feel there's an underreporting and these are the reasons why?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

It's a two-part question, sir, and hopefully I'll get the right answer.

In terms of the numbers, the understanding is that a number of entities have used numbers that came out of Project Surrender, which was done in 2004 or thereabouts, and those numbers have been misinterpreted. They were misinterpreted in the sense that they were relied upon to define the number of victims, and those numbers should not be used for that purpose.

In terms of the RCMP or Human Trafficking National Coordination Centre, to understand the number of potential victims out there in Canada, at this point in time, I can't say there's a number we rely on and feel strongly about. The current threat assessment is going to give us a better idea of where these activities are actually taking place. We have a good idea and we're working on it right now. But the purpose of the threat assessment is really to help us home in on where those problems can be, to better direct our resources.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

But are we leaning towards not reporting the number of victims because it's not about the number of victims, it's about the places they occur? I'm a little confused by what you're saying. You can't get an accurate number of victims of sexual abuse, of domestic violence, for similar reasons. Is that why you're talking that way, or is it because we don't need to have numbers to enact law?

In some parts we're doing a due diligence here, so we have to be sure from law enforcement that this is a problem. I mean, I think we all know it's a problem and think it's a problem, but I'm not sure your words help us with that. Are you saying it's a problem, human trafficking in Canada is a problem that you just can't quantify, in terms of the number of victims? Is that what you're sort of saying?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

I have to agree with you on that one, sir. It is a problem, I have no doubt. In my personal police experience, the areas that I've been involved in, is there human trafficking, as defined? Yes, there is. What is the breadth of it, in terms of quantifying the numbers? From a law enforcement perspective, for the police, the number of victims itself is not an important number to us. It's who is committing it, which organization, so that we can direct our resources to be the most strategic.

Now, there may be other agencies, NGOs and whatnot, who deal with victims who may have an interest in those numbers. But unfortunately, we don't have anything that I could rely on solidly for you.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

And the reason we don't have the numbers is for the three reasons I answered myself in my own question. Is that why?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

I would say so.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Okay, good. Thank you. Superintendent.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Monsieur Ménard, five minutes.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, thank you for inviting the representatives from the RCMP.

You confirm a sense I have had since the last meeting. Without wishing to downplay the impact of human trafficking, it is important for parliamentarians to have an idea of the scale of the activity that they want to prohibit before they take a position on a bill.

Could you explain something to me? Ms. Smith circulated documents in which two figures were mentioned. I read that 15,000 people in Canada may be trafficking victims, at a rate of about 2,000 per year. I am trying to understand where those figures come from.

You are responsible for law enforcement and yet you are not able to get numbers like that. It does not matter that the bill sets mandatory minimum sentences, it does matter to me that charges are laid. If 2,000 people in Canada are victims of trafficking, I hope that the traffickers are going to be hauled into court and sentenced to anything up to life imprisonment. It is not a question of a minimum sentence.

Why do we not have details? Does it seem plausible to you that 2,000 people are victims of trafficking in Canada each year? Why are there no charges? Are we unable to identify these people? What tools do you need to bring these people to court? That is what matters to me.

[Supt Michel Aubin]

I will do my best to answer your question, Mr. Ménard.

It is very difficult to establish the exact number of victims. Are there 2,000? Are there more? Are there fewer? It is hard for us to know with any certainty because this is a hidden crime. It is a crime whose victims do not talk. There are several reasons, including fear.

In a number of cases, people do not necessarily recognize that they are victims. Investigators have difficulty getting people to cooperate with authorities. In some cases, especially those involving people from other countries, cultural questions come into play. For various reasons, victims mistrust the police. They do not have as much trust in Canadian police as we would like. It is very difficult for us, and I cannot tell you why that is.

As for the number of charges, in my opinion, we need awareness campaigns for the police. We have been doing that: more than 16,000 police officers and government officials have gone through awareness training in recent years. Of course, the people providing the training tell us that the police are not very familiar with the offence. They have to be educated so that, when they are conducting investigations, they know how to look below the surface. The surface is prostitution; we have look at what is going on behind that.

Are they human trafficking victims or not? Is an organization behind the trafficking? We have work to do on this. But there has been some movement in recent years. At present, 17 cases are before the courts, which is an increase from the five cases before the courts in the first years.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

In the cases that have been dealt with or are pending, how many involve minors?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

Are you talking about the cases that still have to be dealt with?

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

I think that there were three minors involved in cases with a guilty verdict.

[Supt Michel Aubin]

In the cases where a conviction was obtained, there were 4 people under the age of 18, and, in the 17 cases that are presently before the courts, there are seven victims under 18.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

[Supt Michel Aubin]

There are other cases of—

human trafficking-related cases.

These are human trafficking charges that are not laid as such; they are related charges. In 2008-2009, there were seven victims under the age of 18.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you.

Mr. Comartin, for five minutes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Superintendent, for being here.

We received a letter from the My Canada Association—Motivated Young People for a Strong Canada—who say in their fax to us that “Non-government organizations that work with victims of trafficking estimate that 15,000 people have been trafficked in Canada, the majority of them young First Nation girls...”. They go on to say that “The RCMP estimate that 2200 people are trafficked to the United States from Canada every year.”

Do you have any idea where that came from, given what you've told us today?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

The only thing, Mr. Comartin, we can think of is that it may have been taken from Project Surrender. Again, it's our opinion that it's a project whose results have been misinterpreted.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

So we have no way of knowing. That could be an accurate figure, but we just have no way of knowing?

[Supt Michel Aubin]

All I can tell you, sir, in all honesty, is that we have no hard figures we can rely upon to provide you.