Yes, although I don't presume to be fully apprised of all the issues related to men, because it has been some time since I have worked with men.
I'm Kim Pate, with the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies. I want to thank the committee for inviting us here. I also thank my co-panellists, Michael Mandelcorn and Sharon Rosenfeldt. Many of us have been here many times before.
For those of you who aren't aware, our organization works with marginalized, victimized, criminalized, and institutionalized women and girls. Across the country, we provide everything from early intervention work with women and girls, to victim services in some areas, resettlement work, and work in the prisons. There are a whole range of services. That is the context for the bulk of the information I'll be presenting. Our organization has worked with each of the women whose cases have been subject to the judicial review to date, so I can also speak specifically to some of those.
With the greatest respect for their perspective, we know there are families of victims who are part of groups such as Families Against Mandatory Minimums, which is a U.S.-based group that has strong support. Some of you also know there is a history within my own family. My daughter is without a grandfather because of a murder that happened. I don't presume to have full knowledge of the impact, but certainly I have some knowledge of the impact that losing someone in the family can have on the entire family.
One of the things I think is very key is that when the hearings were happening in 1996, before the reforms of 1997, there was a lot of information that was not correct being put forth in the media. You heard some of it. Some of the information was that section 745, or the faint hope review, changes the sentence. In fact it doesn't change the sentence. People are still serving life sentences. As you know, it changes the parole ineligibility period, if it's successful.
We know from many years of watching this faint hope process that the bulk of those who are eligible to apply to the chief justice in the province they were convicted in don't even apply. The last figures I've been able to obtain—and Michael Mandelcorn talked about actual numbers—are that it is about 39% of those who are eligible who apply. Certainly there are some, as Sharon Rosenfeldt has spoken about, who have no hope and don't get past the chief justice stage. If there's no chance of them proceeding beyond that stage, they don't. Those who do go before a jury of 12 individuals from the community where they were convicted. Having sat through a number of these proceedings, I can tell you they are very rigorous. Victims do have a say, according to the legislation, and some choose to have a say and some choose not to.
For the women whose cases I know of, six of the ten who have been eligible to date were involved in the deaths of men who were their abusers. It puts a very different light on who we're talking about. They were held responsible for those deaths. They are in jail for those deaths. They're serving sentences for first degree murder in relation to those deaths. For some, that is because they were convicted before we knew much about the plight of battered women. Others refused to have their children testify when their children were the only potential witnesses. Some were encouraged not to testify at all. And for some, it was because of other circumstances related to their own lives, or they were involved with other people who were also involved in the commission of the offence. Of those ten women I'm aware of, two have been found by the jury to be ineligible for a reduction.
One woman has chosen never to apply, even though she was one of the ones with an abusive husband, because it was her children who would have been the witnesses. She was concerned about the impact it would have on her children, to not only lose their father but their mother going to jail, as well as the impact of a lot of publicity around the case. She, like many women who have experienced violence, took partial responsibility. Even though legally, publicly, morally, ethically, we would not hold her responsible for the violence that she encountered, she did. When it was time for her to come for her 745 review or to apply, if she chose, she chose not to because she said that it now would be her grandchildren who would be impacted. She refused to even apply to be considered under the faint hope clause because she was concerned that the publicity would impact her grandchildren because they're from a small community.
Of those who have been successful, as we would define success in this context of having been reviewed, victims have been involved in a number of the cases and a number have not. Some of the victims were members of the same family as the perpetrator in many respects. In those cases, it takes.... After the judicial review process, after the process of the faint hope clause has commenced, which can't commence until the 15-year point, even in a successful case.... There is the application to the chief justice, then you go before the jury, and you have the consideration of all the evidence, including the views of the victim and the views of Correctional Service of Canada and people who have worked with the individual. Then the jury weighs whether in fact this person is deserving of the option to apply to the National Parole Board early for a parole ineligibility period reduction. Then they have to agree on what that parole ineligibility period reduction is.
In my experience with those who have been granted by the jury the ability to apply and have had an ineligibility period set, it is usually about three years before they will get before the parole board. Sometimes they cannot come before the parole board, if they haven't completed everything that the Correctional Service of Canada would want them to complete in order to support an application to the National Parole Board. They have to finish whatever programming they were supposed to take. As some of you know, particularly with the increased numbers of individuals in prisons, the last people on the list for programs are those serving the longest sentences.
In order to go forward, they have to have the recommendation of the Correctional Service of Canada. Then they apply to the National Parole Board, and then the National Parole Board considers whether in fact they are eligible to be released.
The primary focus of the National Parole Board is the protection of the public. They will weigh the evidence, and it can take any time length. The earliest I've seen someone come out is within two years, and most people have taken between three, four, and five years once they are eligible for the application for a judicial review.
I think the process is very onerous. This is not to diminish in any way the voices of anybody else on this panel, but it is an onerous process. It particularly looks at whether this individual has completed a process in order to be deserving of an opportunity to re-enter society and continue their life sentence in the community. That sentence never ends; it does continue.
Of those I'm aware of, there have been some returns. Some of the men have returned. There was one woman, and she's a woman with an intellectual disability. She was one of the ones I was referring to who was one of the early reviews. There was not much known about battered women at the time she was convicted. She was caught up in something, was taken advantage of in a situation. She was returned briefly to prison and then released again.
To my knowledge, nobody has been re-involved in any kind of criminal activity. The women are going on to being part of their families and raising grandchildren and that sort of thing. The risk to the public and the human and social cost and the extent to which they are still repaying.... They are paying back for the loss of life for which they were responsible. It continues. In some cases they were fully responsible, and in some cases they were partially responsible. Every one of those women still tells me routinely about the responsibility they feel and how they don't go one day without thinking about the individuals for whom they were partially responsible or fully responsible for their deaths.
One of the things to be aware of is that when we're looking at this approach there are huge human and social costs fully on those who are identified as the victims and those who are identified as the perpetrators. Those who have no glimmer of hope of receiving judicial review, in my experience, very rarely apply. I think Sharon gave the example of Clifford Olson, who very clearly hasn't followed that path, but certainly most others have.
So one of the things we need to do is not fuel misinformation to the public or to victims of crime. We need to be very clear that this option is only available for those individuals who work to show that they have dealt with the issues that contributed to why they're in prison in the first place. Only if they're unanimously deemed to be deserving by the jury that hears their review will they even have an opportunity to apply to the National Parole Board. Only after they have proven to the National Parole Board that they're no longer a risk will they have the possibility of being granted some form of conditional release. That can start with passes for most people and go to day parole in a half-way house.
Even after full-parole eligibility there are individuals who are still in half-way houses until the parole board is comfortable with them being released on full parole. So it's a misperception that people will walk out after 15 years as opposed to 25 years. Most people believe that happens, but in fact that doesn't happen either.
It's very important that it be clear that the reason our organization, the John Howard Society, and many other groups oppose this bill is because it appears to be the pretext of a solution for a problem that isn't there. It's a very onerous process and not everybody walks out. We have many checks and balances already in place to ensure that doesn't occur.
Thank you.