Justice Committee on Nov. 4th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

I call the meeting to order.

This is meeting number 46 of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. Today is Wednesday, November 4, 2009.

Once again, just as a reminder to everyone in this room, please turn off your BlackBerries and your cellphones, or put them on vibrate so we don't have disturbances while we're in session. Also, please take any phone calls outside this room.

Thank you.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Chairman, several members of this Committee found themselves forced to make a choice, following question period, as to whether we would remain in the Chamber for tributes to the 25th Governor General of Canada, or whether we would come to the Committee meeting.

Personally, I am proud of having chosen to be present for the tributes and I can defend that choice. However, I would not want members of Parliament who made the same choice, and who may not have been as quick to make the trip from the Chamber to the Committee room once the tributes were over, to be prevented from taking part in the Committee's work. So, for all those reasons, I think we should wait for them. We are not responsible for the Speaker of the House having been late with the question period, a delay that subsequently affected tributes to the Right Hon. Roméo LeBlanc, who is someone we all admire, whatever our political opinions. I would there ask that we wait for the other members to arrive. I see that Ms. Jennings has just arrived. I don't know who will be replacing Mr. Dominic LeBlanc, but as you know, he is the son of the 25th Governor General of Canada. I think it would be indecent to begin in his absence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

We'll go to Mr. Murphy.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

On this very point, it is quite unusual that we can pay homage to an extraordinary character like Mr. LeBlanc, who was Speaker of the Senate, Governor General, and Minister of Fisheries.

Some of the lateness is also due to the fact that there was a rather irregular procedure involving the tabling of estimates, which I gather has not been done in a regular fashion after question period for some many years. There's an irregular circumstance. We can probably proceed with the question anytime now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

I just want to remind everybody that we're missing only one member of the committee at this point in time. My guess is that he may be doing some television interviews.

Here we go. We have a replacement, I believe. We're okay.

Let's move on. As you know, the agenda for today is very full. We have a lot of business to get through. I also note that the bells will start ringing at 5:15. I believe the vote is at 5:30, so we'll have to be very efficient with our time.

The items on our agenda, just so everyone knows, are: clause-by-clause on Bill C-232; two further witnesses on Bill C-36; Mr. Moore's motion on clause-by-clause on Bill C-36; and clause-by-clause on Bill C-36. I also advise the committee that Mr. Comartin has advised that he has another witness he would like to hear on November 16, namely, Mr. Rick Sauvé. As well, I understand that Mr. Moore wishes to deal with the Bill C-36 motion at the beginning of this meeting rather than at the end. Clearly, I need to know what the wish of this committee is on these two requests. If we proceed with the motion, and the motion is passed, that also appears to dispose of Mr. Comartin's request for an additional witness. I need to know what the will of this committee is.

Yes, Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chairman, with all due respect, I have the agenda in front of me and I would like the Committee to follow that agenda—in other words, that we proceed with clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-232, and then hear from the witnesses that are here representing the Correctional Service of Canada. If there is any time remaining, we can begin clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-36. Further to my request, if we don't have enough time, we will be back here on November 16, and we can proceed based on the established order. We should not be trying to rush through things in the next few days.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

I certainly concur with Mr. Ménard. If there's no motion to put Mr. Moore's motion at the top of the list, we'll just proceed as set out in the agenda.

I don't know what Mr. Moore wishes to do.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thanks, Chair.

The only reason we might want to deal with it at the beginning is so we can better plan the rest of our days...whether the motion passes or fails. I'd like to deal with the motion now, and then we get on with the rest of the schedule.

That's what we were dealing with when we ended our last committee meeting. We were about to vote on the motion, and I think Mr. Comartin moved that the meeting be adjourned. So if we could take care of that piece of business, then we could move on with the rest.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

All right.

I don't want to deal with this any further unless there's a motion on the table to change the order of the agenda.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

A point of order, Mr. Chairman.

I took Mr. Moore's comments just now to be in fact a motion that his motion be put to the top of the agenda, and I raise my hand to second that motion, if I'm correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Is that correct, Mr. Moore?

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

That's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

All right. Then we have a motion on the table to move Mr. Moore's ongoing motion that we adjourned on at our last meeting to the top of the agenda.

Is that the motion?

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

That's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

We have that motion on the table.

There's no debate.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I'm not debating.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Is it a point of order?

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

A point of information.

I'd like you, if you could, Mr. Chair, to explain, because we did leave in a bit of a....

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Hurry.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Hurry, that's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

We had a vote.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Yes. And I think the committee members would all like to know the status of the motion—there was an amendment, a subamendment—and we want to know what motion we're actually dealing with, Madam Clerk, and what the effect of it would be vis-à-vis the order for today, Bill C-232 and Bill C-36.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

I went back to review the evidence, and the evidence is very clear that the subamendment as well as the amendment failed, so we're back with the original motion that Mr. Moore made.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

And what was that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

I'll read that to you. That motion reads as follows:

That the Committee begin clause by clause consideration of Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (Serious Time for the Most Serious Crime Act) on Wednesday, November 4th, and that the meeting not adjourn until clause by clause consideration is complete.

That is the motion that was on the table when we adjourned at our last meeting. The motion before us right now is to move consideration of that motion to the top of today's agenda.

And that's not debatable.