Mr. Dubin, I am going to ask you a question.
You spoke earlier about a $3 billion loss. We have met with people working in banking who talked about bank frauds committed using credit cards and debit cards, and so on, totalling $8 billion a year; you are talking about $3 billion.
The $3 billion you are talking about, I had actually considered that from the bank standpoint. In banking, it is essentially the same system: someone organizes a fraud to get money using false credit, a false name, false references, and so on.
Do you think that the response from bank representatives, that there are frauds on the order of $8 billion, is plausible? If I add your $3 billion, it comes to $11 billion, which is really an enormous amount.
To your knowledge, as a representative of the Insurance Bureau of Canada, are there other areas where there might be other types of fraud? I am talking about bank fraud; you talked about another type of fraud that you estimate at $3 billion. Are there others? That is what I want to know. What are we talking about? Because this bill will also apply to various commercial frauds.