Justice Committee on April 29th, 2010

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

Yes, we do.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Was there any difference in their pattern of behaviour in the institutions?

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

There was no difference, from what we understood. There was very little representation of those who were convicted of criminal organization offences who came from street gangs.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

So it's a very small number for street gangs.

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

Yes, and there was a very large number of those who were in what was described. That made them an artifact of what was happening historically in the courts for motorcycle gang members. Subsequent to that, there were the traditional....

Organized crime was about 17% to 20% of that sample at the time. So the numbers were very small to do a definitive kind of comparative analysis on how they were appearing. There is a small group of those who are convicted on organized crime offences and are also engaged in street gangs. You can't conclude anything from that until you get a robust or large enough sample size.

We are probably approaching that now over time. You just have to build it up. We probably admit around 50 to 60 cases a year of new admissions who have those kinds of criminal organization offences. From a methodological perspective, we're now approaching a sample of around 450 to 500 cases, and that will be enough from which to draw some better conclusions.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Will the longitudinal study be made public when it's completed?

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

Yes, we expect so. It was part of the normal production of research reports on various aspects of the correctional population. The first two reports--the profile of them and the prison career follow-up--are already available on the Internet and in the public domain and translated.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

Those are all my questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you.

We'll move to Mr. Dechert for seven minutes.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Dr. Motiuk, thank you for your appearance here today and for sharing your expertise with us.

You mentioned in your presentation this morning that there were several changes to the Criminal Code in the late 1990s, early in 2001, in 1997, and in Bill C-24 in 2001 that, among other things, increased the sentencing for certain kinds of offences.

In your view, did those changes to the Criminal Code result in an increase in the prison population?

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

They did to some extent, but not by much really. If you look at the early years, under 50 cases represented about 1% of our new warrant committal admissions in a year federally. So there was an impact and a small increase.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

So there were some additional persons, and the people who were there were incarcerated for longer periods of time.

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

Exactly. So there was the cost of extra days of incarceration.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

There were extra costs due to their housing and the programming they received during that period.

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

That's correct.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I know it's a little beyond the scope of the study you presented to us this morning, but I also note that you're a trained psychologist. You seemed to indicate that these types of prisoners were better behaved while in the institutions and more willing to follow the rules in prison. Wearing your psychologist's hat, why would that be the case?

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

There are a number of reasons. They don't present with the same range of problems as the regular population. They come with backgrounds of more stability in their families. They have supports like that.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Are you talking about their personal family or their criminal organization family?

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

Either—but they have support, like family support, domestically or otherwise.

They don't present the same range of difficulties in what we would call the “cognitive functioning area”, in terms of their thinking. They're better at planning. They're better at goal-setting. They're better at understanding the consequences of certain actions.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

These are the more successful criminals.

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

Yes, and they're less impulsive. Self-regulation is a huge component of prison adjustment, that is, the ability to regulate one's thoughts and behaviours. They distinguish themselves compared with the other group in having fewer difficulties in these areas. Also with mental disorders, they present less than 1% of those with these kinds of issues.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

So, perversely, the more organized the criminal, the more of a model prisoner he or she may be.

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

Could be.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Could it be because if you don't follow the rules in the Hells Angels organization, you might suffer severe consequences?

[Dr. Larry Motiuk]

Well, it could be. There are those possibilities as well.