Justice Committee on Oct. 21st, 2010

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Well, thank you. That's better.

I want to first of all thank you for being here and for bringing us this evidence, because I think it's very important and I think what you've told us bears repeating and saying out loud: that 61% of all victims of sexual assault are children; that you monitored 4,110 images and that 82.1% of those images depict very young, prepubescent children under the age of 12; and that of those 4,110 unique images, over 35% actually depict sexual assaults against children.

So I say that even if there are people who might claim that crime rates are going down, these incidents are unacceptable. I'm just glad that the government is getting tough on these crimes.

I'm supposing that if I asked you whether you think the government is on the right track with this bill, the answer would be a resounding yes. Is that correct?

[Lianna McDonald]

Yes.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

And do you agree that this bill will help to protect children from online sexual exploitation?

[Lianna McDonald]

Yes.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I also will ask you, because I think my friend Mr. Norlock was pointing out to me a moment ago that we are here as members of Parliament to ask the questions that our constituents would ask.... I noticed in the brief you gave us that one of the things your agency does is educate parents and others about risks posed to teens using mobile phones and highlight strategies that can be used to keep them safe.

Since I think I have a couple of minutes left and we are being televised, I'd like to invite you to expand on that a little bit and maybe tell us some of the strategies that our constituents can use to keep teens safe in this respect.

[Lianna McDonald]

This is a huge question. I think most Canadian parents, especially those of teenagers, are being bombarded with so many issues. Our agency is equally committed to educating the Canadian public.

In terms of the whole issue concerning cellphones, we have a whole website called “textual education”, TextED.ca. Families can go in there and learn about texting. We have a site called “Mobile Safety” site. We have age-appropriate safety tips for all families, by which they can learn how to keep their kids safer.

One of the things we are really trying to educate parents on is that the way you deal with a young grade 6 or grade 7 child is going to be very different from the way you're dealing with your grade 11 or grade 12 child. So really, we've tailored the information to be appropriate and to give parents tools to navigate through this complicated space. We have a number of website resources.

I should note that last year we distributed 1.6 million pieces of educational material, to every school across Canada, in French and in English, and this was one of the issues we dealt with.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Excellent. So our constituents can check out your websites, which you just mentioned. Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, if I have any time left, I would be happy to share it with my friend Monsieur Petit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Monsieur Petit has waived his right to speak.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I'm complete, fini. Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

All right. Thank you.

I wanted to commend both of you, Ms. McDonald and Ms. Milner, for the work that you do. I think Canadians understand that government can only do so much, and we need Canadians to work together with us on this problem. You're doing yeoman's service to Canadians by continuing to fight the fight against the sexual exploitation of our children. So thank you.

What we're going to do now is have Department of Justice officials take their places at the table. We'll suspend for two minutes and then we'll continue with clause-by-clause.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

I reconvene the meeting.

I want to welcome to the table Ms. Catherine Kane, Mr. Normand Wong, and Mr. Jean-François Noël. Welcome back to our committee.

They are here as resource people if we have any questions regarding the bill; they're here representing the Department of Justice.

We're going to move to clause-by-clause consideration.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), I'm going to postpone consideration of clause 1.

Mr. Lee.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Chair, just on a point of order, we don't have anybody representing the government here on this bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

What do you mean?

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

We have departmental officials, but this bill is put forward by the government, and there isn't anyone representing the minister here. Has someone decided not to have the parliamentary secretary represent the minister?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

The parliamentary secretary is here.

The normal practice here, in the two years that I've chaired this committee, is not to have the minister here. We typically have the parliamentary secretary sitting as one of the government members and we typically have Department of Justice officials here. So there's nothing uncommon about what we're doing today.

I know you're new to the committee. I don't believe there's any requirement that we have the minister or someone representing the minister at the other end of the table. The parliamentary secretary is here. Actually, we have two parliamentary secretaries; you're getting a bonus.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

If the members sitting opposite will be representing the government position—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Yes, they are.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

—and if they're prepared to deal with it that way, I'm fine.

You've only been here two years; I've been here 22 years. I can tell you what my normal is. It may vary from what your normal is. However, I'm prepared to have the existing arrangement, if it's the understanding that the parliamentary secretaries will, if necessary, speak for the government, as opposed to departmental officials doing so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Mr. Lee, I know you've been here a lot longer than I have, but I know that over the last two years the arrangements we have right now at this committee have been the ones we've used. In the previous two and a half years, back to 2006, the committees I sat on also used the same process.

Now, your committees may have had a different understanding, but I don't think we should get bogged down on this. I think everyone is in agreement that the parliamentary secretaries are present and will be representing the government's position at the table.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, just to put Mr. Lee at ease, I'd like to state for the record that Mr. Petit and I will jointly officially represent the Minister of Justice here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you. I think we've solved that problem.

Just to restate, I'm postponing consideration of clause 1, which is the title. That's pursuant to Standing Order 75(1).

I'll call clause 2. There is an amendment that has been presented by the Liberals, if you would like to introduce it.

(On Clause 2—Definitions)

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In reading the bill, members will note that there's a difference in format between the English version and the French version of the definition of Internet service.

The French version—and I'm using my own English words to paraphrase it—refers to Internet “services”, meaning services of type A or B or C, but all of them being services.

The English version reads:

“Internet service” means Internet access, Internet content hosting or electronic mail.

There is no reference here to the “service” of Internet content hosting or “service” of Internet access, or, most importantly, the “service” of Internet mail. It simply says “electronic mail”. In my reading, as I mentioned at a previous committee hearing, this would implicate anybody who sends electronic mail, in contrast with what I think was intended and what the French version reads: anyone who provides electronic mail services. There's a difference between somebody who simply sends electronic mail and somebody who provides electronic mail services.

So my amendment would add the word “service” after the words “electronic mail” so that it reads “electronic mail service”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you.

That amendment has been moved. Is there any further discussion?

We'll go to Mr. Dechert, and then Mr. Woodworth.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We have the Department of Justice officials here. I believe they've had an opportunity to review Mr. Lee's proposed amendment. I wonder if I could ask them to comment on it.