I'll thank you anyway, Mr. Chair, and you, Mr. Minister, for being here, along with the officials.
Let me just pursue this. Your last answer, of course, is accurate, that at the time the jury convicts the person and the sentence is imposed, they're looking at the 25 years as the penalty. Actually, it's life, so it's much longer than that.
I don't know if you know, Mr. Minister, that the length of time the average convicted murderer in Canada spends in custody is 28.5 years. It's not 15 or even 25, and in fact—