Evidence of meeting #37 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was apply.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Andrew Kania Liberal Brampton West, ON
Do you find that to be an easy system for a person who was convicted and is trying to get early parole?
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
I don't see it as an easy system, given the work that has to go into preparing the case before a judge and jury. Actually, just going before a judge and jury itself is a challenge. I think that once a case is before the judge and jury, there has been a very, very serious evaluation done by a lot of people at the Correctional Service. To me it's never an easy situation when you end up before a judge and jury and you have to demonstrate that your conduct is such that you maybe could be considered eventually for parole. Then if you do get a positive decision from the judge and jury, you still have to go through the parole board process to obtain parole. That also, in my experience, is not an easy process.
Therefore, it's a very rigorous and very serious process, and I think the statistics show that it's been very rigorous and very serious over the years.
Conservative
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Do you have any personal experience with the application of the faint hope clause?
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
No, not directly. In terms of preparing an inmate to appear before a judge and jury, no, I have never done that. I have worked in correctional services, but at the time, there had not yet been any cases to refer to a judge and jury. So, I never have had to actually refer cases.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Of the many organizations which you represent, are there any that look after victims?
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
The mission of the organizations which we represent is, first and foremost, to rehabilitate offenders. However, that does not mean that these organizations are not concerned about victims or that, in certain cases, they do not contact organizations that assist victims. It's just that that is not their primary mission.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
In carrying out your duties, does it ever happen that you encourage victims to contact prisoners or that you support victims who agree to do that, as a way for offenders to make amends for what they've done?
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
There is at least one ASRSQ member organization that supports victims and offenders. However, victims do not meet the offender directly.
This is done through the Centre de services de justice réparatrice, which is located in Montreal. In Montreal, and possibly in Quebec City as well, there is an effort to bring offenders and victims closer together. As far as I know, though, offenders do not directly meet with their victims, because that is fairly complicated. It's not easy to organize something like that.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
In any case, that would not be possible with inmates convicted of murder, because they are in prison.
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
To my knowledge, of the occasions where victims and offenders did meet, some had been convicted for murder. It may not have been the majority, but some had been in prison for quite a long time and were sufficiently aware to be able to take part in such meetings.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Did the victims who met with offenders convicted of murder have connection to the people who had been murdered?
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
To my knowledge, no, that was not the case.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Well, I fully understand your position and, quite honestly, I fully support it. Here we really are talking about a solution looking for a problem.
But isn't there something more than that? This solution would put an end to something which you see as a positive feature of the Canadian prison system.
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
Indeed, we are of the view that eliminating the faint hope clause would bring an end to something positive which has proven to be a success. There is no evidence of abuse and public safety has never been endangered as a result of this clause.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
In spite of that, is there something we could add to it in order to lessen the feelings of stress felt by some victims as they get closer to the time when the individual responsible for murdering their family member could apply for a judicial review under this legislation?
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
It is easy to understand that for some victims' families, this can be an event that brings back all kinds of difficult feelings and memories. These people need support at that time and that support should be available to them. I believe there are programs out there that provide support to such victims, but they may be inadequate. We fully acknowledge the fact that they require support. We know that the most difficult thing for victims is the fact that the offenders involved in the crime are not necessarily the ones who secure a judicial review. Some offenders will be given neither a judicial review nor parole after 25 years.
The question really is: are we making laws for individuals or for society and the people of Canada as a whole?
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
As I understand it, according to the results, there is a very small percentage of individuals convicted of murder who have actually applied for and been given this final chance to shorten their prison sentence.
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
Earlier I was saying that 17% of those eligible actually apply for a judicial review.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Altimas, for being with us this afternoon.
You were saying that there are not enough programs available to help victims' families when they are facing a judicial review process by the offender. Do you have any suggestions as to how to improve our programs?
I agree with you, there are programs out there but they are inadequate. Is there something else we could do, particularly to help and protect victims' families?
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
I know that the Correctional Service of Canada has taken a number of different initiatives aimed at victims. There are already some core programs that need to be improved and better funded. Whether they go through the Correctional Service of Canada or other organizations that help victims, funding should be available to help these people. I know the government is making an effort in that area and that effort should be pursued so that these people are not left to cope on their own when these events occur.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Do you think that this bill, if it passes, will significantly reduce the harm done to victims' families by offenders?
Director General, Association des services de réhabilitation sociale du Québec
That is a question of perception and opinion. In my view, whether a person remains in prison for 10 years, 15 years, 20 or 30 years, that does not eliminate the harm that has been caused and the pain that families may feel. I don't think that is what would lessen the harm done. I think there are other, more positive solutions through which that could be achieved.
As I was mentioning earlier, by removing such provisions from our laws, we are exacerbating the clash between victims, victims' families and offenders. Should we not instead be focusing on appeasement and try to achieve reconciliation, or what I referred to earlier as quote unquote “healing”. I say “quote unquote” because Mr. Boisvenu would say that we shouldn't be using those kinds of terms, but I have yet to find a better one.
