Justice Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2011

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Look, Monsieur Lemay, you're almost there. I'm glad you've read this. You've read it carefully. The preventative measures we have brought forward, you're onside with those. I'd say, keep on going. You're just about there.

Look at those other provisions. They send the right message: conditional sentencing, house arrest for people who sexually exploit other people, this is not good. Toughening up the sentencing, these are all steps in the right direction.

I appreciate that you like the new provisions we are introducing into the Criminal Code. I say, keep going. Sit down with your officials and you'll see that all of this makes sense. This is all great legislation—

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

—and this country will be a better place for it.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Minister, I will tell you why we object to minimum prison sentences in some cases, including in cases of sexual assault. You do not leave any discretion to the courts when they must make a ruling. Mr. Minister, please understand—you must understand—that every single case is unique.

However, there are some things in your bill which are important. You want to crack down on Internet pornography and Internet predators. We support this; we have no problems with that. As for the rest, I note that minimum prison sentences will all be carried out in provincial prisons, which means in part in Quebec. Consequently, Quebec will have to pay to house all of these inmates, because these minimum sentences are 90 days in length, and so on.

Have you discussed this bill with the provinces?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Going back to your initial part, this gives discretion with the judges, and it's perfectly in line with our role as parliamentarians. On every bill that I've been associated with over the last 25 years, we've had maximum sentences.

Monsieur Lemay, I remember one bill I was the parliamentary secretary for. I had one of my own colleagues tell me that we had a maximum of five years, and that we should let the judge decide, because maybe the judge would want to give this guy six or seven years. I say our role as parliamentarians is to give those guidelines to the judiciary with respect to maximum sentences. In this case, we're giving that guideline with respect to minimum sentences.

You could say that the mandatory penalty is one year. The judge has the discretion; he can look at that individual and decide that one year doesn't cut it and four or five years is what this guy needs. With changes that we've already passed, getting rid of the two-for-one credit means the time you get will be the time you actually serve. So we've made that change and I think we've been consistent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you.

We'll move on to Monsieur Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Do I have five minutes?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Yes.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Minister, I would like to thank you and the officials who are with you, for being here this afternoon.

I would like to draw your attention to the issues which have just been discussed. We are talking about mandatory minimum sentences. I would like to point out that I am from Quebec. We have discussed this issue with other members from Quebec. We do not all agree with the members of the Bloc Québécois. We have realized that mandatory minimum sentences are important. Indeed, we took into account situations like the one of the woman who told us about the fact that she had been sexually assaulted. We also considered the situation of children, as is defined in the Criminal Code.

I admire our bill and I admire your consistency since you became Minister of Justice. We are often criticized for having a law and order approach. I would like to thank you for something. Who will this bill protect? The children of members of the Liberal Party, the children of members of the Bloc Québécois, the children of members of the NDP, and the children of members of the Conservatives. This affects everyone. We are not here for the government, we are here to protect our children. We are not here to engage in partisanship. For that, Mr. Justice Minister, I thank you.

Further, in my riding as elsewhere, many people have called in to open-line shows. This keeps on happening in Quebec. People complain that lightweight sentences are handed down. People are sick and tired of sexual predators taking advantage of a “turnstile system”. They go in one day and they come out the next. They are in and out very, very fast. What is happening today is unbelievable. As we speak, there are lawyers, doctors, journalists, actors and parents who are predators. All of these cases are before the courts.

I would ask you whether you believe—and I would like you to consider this very carefully—that mandatory minimum sentences will be imposed. I believe this would help people trust the system of justice. We have lost confidence in our justice system. You said that people can choose to trust in our justice system, but we seem to have lost that trust.

So do you believe that mandatory minimum sentences will help people regain this trust?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I think they help people have confidence in the criminal justice system. But I'm aware of and I appreciate the fact that there are people who disagree with this. I think part of our job as parliamentarians is to put before Canadians the different opinions there are on this.

We are very clear, with respect to this in this bill, that if you are in the business of sexually exploiting and molesting children, you're going to jail. Now, as you hear, there are those right here in Parliament who disagree with that, or they disagree with the mandatory jail sentences for that, but I think that is part of the discussion we have with the people of your province and other provinces to point out the differences between the approaches of different political parties.

We've been very consistent, as you know. We've made our justice legislation a priority all the way through. We've been consistent on that. We want to modernize the Criminal Code. We want to, as you say, increase people's confidence in the criminal justice system. And this is one more step in making sure that the rights of victims are understood and protected within our criminal justice system.

Monsieur Petit, thank you again, you and all your colleagues here, for all your support of these. These are very, very important, and I wish you every success, as I do all the members of the committee, in getting this bill through as quickly as possible.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you, Mr. Minister. You were scheduled to stay for an hour. The hour is up, so we'll allow you to leave.

We'll have Mr. Matthias Villetorte join us, and we'll continue our questioning.

Mr. Lee, you're next.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I'll just wait for officials to....

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Mr. Lee, we'll just take a recess of two minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

We'll reconvene.

Before we move on with our discussion on Bill C-54, we do have an operating budget request for the study of this bill. It was circulated earlier in our meeting. The total is about $15,000. If you could review that and....

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I'll move it now, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

All right. Thank you, Mr. Lee.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Chair, may I ask something just briefly on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Yes.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Has this been spent, or...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

No.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

We had a panel first, isn't that right? Is this on this bill?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

No, this hasn't been spent. This is on this bill.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Right, but we have witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

It's for the cost of witnesses—