Justice Committee on Feb. 28th, 2011

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Thank you very much for your presentations.

Mr. Dagenais, you are the president of the Association des policières et policiers provinciaux du Québec. I would like to ask you if you and your association are aware of a Nova Scotia commission of inquiry, headed by Mr. Justice Nunn, into the case of a young offender. As the result of this young person's deplorable activities, people demanded a public inquiry. In the course of the inquiry, Justice Nunn looked at the Young Offenders Act and the Youth Criminal Justice Act in detail. He made a number of recommendations, some of which affected only the provincial government, such as youth protection or services of that kind. But six recommendations dealt with the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Are you aware of those recommendations?

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

Right off the bat, I would say no, I am not aware of them.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

In 2007, in a previous life, I was the official opposition's justice critic. I asked for the executive summary of the report to be translated. So I am in possession of a translation of the report, including the recommendations. I would like to provide you and Mr. Greenberg with a copy.

At the time, I sent the report to several major players in Quebec. The response to Justice Nunn's recommendations was quite favourable. I would like you and Mr. Greenberg to provide written comments and send them to our chair, so that all members of the committee can have the benefit of your expertise in the area, your analysis of and take on Justice Nunn's recommendations.

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

Ms. Jennings, you said that you had sent copies of the report to various organizations. I gather that we were not on your list at the time. Which year was it?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

It was in 2007. I have to say that the Association des policières et policiers provinciaux du Québec was not on my list. At the time, the government had no interest in reviewing the current act.

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

I would be delighted to provide comments on the report when I get a copy.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

My distribution list at the time was quite limited.

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

As soon as I get the document, I will be happy to comment on it.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dagenais.

Mr. Greenberg, for you, it's the same thing. I have the executive summary. I can also provide you with the links where you can get the full report online. It's written in English. It's an excellent report and I have to say that the recommendations with regard to actual amendments to the current law were very considered.

Unfortunately, the government's Bill C-4 does not follow those recommendations. It's unfortunate, because the report came out in December 2006, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, so the government has had a number of years to study the report, to consider it, and to do their consultations.

It has decided not to implement those recommendations, in fact, notwithstanding that at the time there seemed to be a real consensus across Canada. I consulted with different stakeholder groups across the provinces, including the Attorneys General, and there seemed to be a real sense that yes, Justice Nunn's recommendations were what was needed--nothing else.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you.

We'll move to Mr. Ménard for seven minutes.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Dagenais, you say that you are in favour of making it easier to publish the names of young offenders. Some people have testified at this committee that some leaders of youth gangs would be only too happy to have their names published, and even happier to be identified as gang members on the front page of the Journal de Montréal. Don't you think that it will make them more intent on pursuing a life of crime?

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

What we are seeing, Mr. Ménard, is that there seems to be more serious crime. You mention street gangs. They are often going to make use of younger people. I would not go so far as to say that it is because young people must be less accountable for their actions. After all, we are talking about serious offences like premeditated murder. In cases like that, we also have to protect society, as I mentioned in my brief. Victims often do not know that people like that are living in their neighbourhood. If the information were made public, the people could be recognized. I understand that they might be happy seeing themselves on the front page, but you have to think of the victims too.

In some adult cases, identities have been made widely known and it has even been difficult to send them to half-way houses because of it.

Right from the moment where the judge decides that the young person has committed a crime, it is important that the identity be made known in order to protect the public, as I mentioned in my brief. We are often talking about sexual predators, and, unfortunately, there are young ones too. Making identities known, be it sooner or later, is about protecting society.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

As a parent, if you find that a young person who has had his name revealed is in fact the child of one of your neighbours, what are you going to tell your children about him?

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

If I had children and found that a young person living two blocks from me had committed a serious sexual offence—this is always about serious crimes—there would be a need to make the neighbourhood safe. Too often, people like that are released quickly, get back into society and live unnoticed. That is when they can reoffend.

Definitely in the case of serious offences—I insist once more that the offence must be serious—the offender's identity must be made known and people must be alerted. People must be protected and must protect themselves by making sure to report incidents to the police.

When I was working as a police officer in smaller communities, people very often told us that a person like that was back in their neighbourhood. People were protecting themselves. You also have to think of the victims. That is how victims go about protecting themselves.

That is why I said that it is good to make the information public. It does not have to be done in all cases, but certainly with serious offences.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Do you understand why the bill is called Sébastien's Law?

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

Yes, I do, I know that a young person of that name lost his life in a neighbourhood in Laval because of a group of young people. I have met his parents too. That is why the bill is called Sébastien's Law.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

And the young person who murdered Sébastien was sent to adult court.

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

Yes.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

He was sent to prison for life.

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

Yes.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I can't see how the law can be applied more severely than that.

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

He was sent to prison for life. He won't be getting out anytime soon.

But you know as well as I do how many times sexual predators have been released, unfortunately. There was another case in Sainte-Foy, near Quebec City. A sexual predator was released and his identity was not revealed. Thanks to the actions of a good Samaritan who reported having seen a sexual predator putting a child into the trunk of his vehicle, the Quebec City police were able to make the arrest. We have that witness to thank for that.

If identities are revealed, members of the public can definitely become witnesses. Can you really be against that?

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

It wasn't a sexual predator in Sébastien's case.

[Jean-Guy Dagenais]

You are right.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Some kids were arguing over a girl.

Do you understand that the goal of the bill is to amend the act so that what happened to Sébastien Lacasse never happens again?