Thank you, Gaylene.
My name is Rick Stroppel. I've been a lawyer for 27 years. For seven and a half years I've done nothing but youth cases. I work as staff counsel at the Youth Criminal Defence Office in Edmonton. I've done every level of case, everything from shoplifting up to and including murder. I was involved in the CBA's submission and I'm here to support it.
I want to start by saying that the amendments that are proposed to the YCJA are, in some senses, necessary amendments. When one is dealing with a criminal statute, it's very common, one might say almost unavoidable, that as the statute is implemented and put into practice in the real world, issues come up that need to be addressed and dealt with. That's what we had with the Youth Criminal Justice Act.
I must say, with respect to the CBA's submission, that I believe we have attempted to achieve some balance in our submission. That reflects the balance of the CBA itself. Our organization includes not just defence lawyers; it includes prosecutors and judges. So when we respond to legislation like this, we like to pick out the things we see as positive, for instance, the positive changes that are proposed, and we've acknowledged that in our submission.
If I could refer you to page 5 of our submission, we have commended Parliament for including the presumption of diminished moral blameworthiness from the case of R. v. B. (D.). Referring to the top of page 6 of our submission, we agree with the prohibition against youth serving time in adult prisons. We agree with the redefinition of serious violent offence with a view towards clarification. These are some of the things we see in Bill C-4 that are positive and that we agree with. It's obvious to us that the amendments, in general terms, are drafted by people with some familiarity with youth law, with some expertise in those areas, and that a lot of thought has gone into that.
One of the things I wanted to do in my opening comments is to put the problem of youth crime into a context. I was speaking to Professor Bala before we began our appearance here today. He advised me that it's his understanding that about 80% of youth crime is non-violent. As regards the remaining 20%, more than half of that represents I think what we would objectively characterize as relatively minor violent crimes, not beyond simple assault. The people who are coming later this afternoon could give you the exact figures, but it's my understanding that less than 10% of youth crime represents serious violent crime. Whenever you appear in a context like this, you spend 90% of your time talking about the 10% of youth crime that represents serious violent crime. We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, with respect to this act, when it comes to non-violent offences and relatively minor violent offences, it works like a charm. It's tremendously successful and we should acknowledge that in our consideration of the act.
Another point I'd like to make is that what's built into the legislation as it stands is a very important safety valve, which allows for the imposition of an adult sentence against a young person. There is reference in our submission to the Lacasse case. Certainly, it's a tragic case. The point is made at page 3 of our submission that this young person who was convicted of second-degree murder as an adult, or at least sentenced as an adult, received a sentence of life with no parole for seven years. That's a life sentence. That young person may spend the rest of his life in jail. Another thing that flows from that is that we can say his name here, because when young people receive an adult sentence they are treated in all respects as adults, including the publication of their name.
Some of the issues and problems that the amendments to Bill C-4 are directed at are in fact already solved by the legislation and therefore unnecessary. A sixteen- or seventeen-year-old who is convicted or pleads guilty of first-degree murder can receive up to life with no parole for 10 years, and this is pursuant to section 745.1 of the Criminal Code. That's surely an onerous sentence, so we already have a statute that's been very carefully considered and drafted to allow for the safety valve of the very tiny minority of young people who commit very serious crimes. They can receive already a very onerous sentence.
Ms. White has already talked about the cost savings that are associated with the decreased rate of incarceration of young people as a function of sentence. What's become apparent to us, and this is mentioned in our submission, is that when we consider the history of the act, not only has the rate of incarceration gone down, but the rate of youth crime generally has gone down. So we have to ask a serious question: what were we accomplishing 10 years ago when we were incarcerating young people at one of the highest rates in the western world? Well, one of the things we were accomplishing was we were wasting a lot of money that could have been much better spent on programs that would have helped to rehabilitate young people.
That leads to a concern on our part in that it seems that many of the proposals in Bill C-4 are aimed towards making it easier to incarcerate young people, and also, with respect to subsection 29(2), making it easier to detain them prior to trial. So we disagree with the amendments to subsection 29(2)--and this will be my last point as I see my time is almost up. In the amendments to subsection 29(2), which make it possible for a judge to detain a young person if there's a substantial likelihood that they will commit a serious offence while they're on release, we've made this point in our submission that “serious offence” contains quite a collection of things that we would characterize as frankly relatively innocuous, like cheque fraud and that sort of thing. The other problem we've identified is that “substantial likelihood” is a rather nebulous phrase.
In youth law, of all areas of the law, we would like to have some certainty and predictability, but what troubles us about this is that we're talking now about keeping people in custody who haven't been convicted of anything as of yet. It seems to us that this is contrary, first of all, to the Charter of Rights, paragraph 11(e), which provides that a person cannot be denied bail without just cause, and also to another principle that is enshrined right in the Youth Criminal Justice Act, item 3(1)(b)(iii), which says that young people are entitled to enhanced procedural protection of their rights.
Those are some of the reasons that we're opposed to subsection 29(2). Some of the other amendments that are proposed here we think would have the very negative effect of increasing the number of custodial sentences imposed against young people and the number of young people detained before trial, which, as is noted on page 3 of Professor Bala's submission, unfortunately has gone up since the Youth Criminal Justice Act was proclaimed into force. I'm ashamed to say it has particularly gone up in the prairie provinces. It's almost like we're giving with one hand and taking away with the other. We're imposing fewer custodial sentences but making more young people remain in custody before trial.
Those are my submissions on behalf of the CBA. I'm grateful for this opportunity, and I'd be happy to answer any questions later this afternoon.