Mr. Chairman, I never questioned the integrity or the intention of the member opposite or any of the other members here. Certainly this thing should not descend into whether they're questioning our sincerity or integrity in this debate. I'll pass over it, because what we're talking about here is so serious that we should not be engaged in this kind of facile questioning of a person's integrity or sincerity. I would be in breach of my constitutional responsibilities as a parliamentarian if I didn't address these things.
I'm not repeating anything. I started to say something that I could not have said on Tuesday because it was after we met that the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General of Quebec said he was proposing a series of amendments with respect to the Youth Justice Act, which we have not yet gotten to and for which a number of us have already tendered amendments. My whole point is that what he was saying was not only about amendments with regard to the Youth Justice Act, which in and of themselves deserve debate. What he was saying is that he has not been able to have his voice heard, that he made these recommendations months ago, and that he has been seeking to discuss these matters with the Minister of Justice. So far, that has not come to pass.
More important, Mr. Chairman, when we say we've discussed these things before, yes, we have, and yes, there were amendments proposed, and yes, those amendments were adopted in previous committee hearings, but in fact they do not find expression in the bill now coming before us. What does that say about the discussion that preceded this? On the one hand, yes, we discussed this bill before, but on the other hand, we don't have to do anything about that which we discussed before. We don't even have to incorporate or relate to any of those amendments. That's shocking.
To return to the question that we were debating on Tuesday, that is transformative legislation, which we support. That is transformative legislation that we want to see enacted into law. But we want to see the most effective legislation enacted into law, as the government should want to have for their purposes, which I share on this legislation. I don't for a moment question their sincerity with regard to the enactment of that piece of legislation. But as I said, Mr. Chairman, there are other transformative impacts that we will not have an opportunity to discuss.
For example, there is the federal-provincial component, which only arose again after we met on Tuesday. At this point, Justice Minister Jean-Marc Fournier will not be able to have his voice heard. Open federalism will not be expressed.
There is also the question of cost. We don't know the cost of this legislation. We need to understand and have a better appreciation of it. This is important, because we're talking about the spending power. We're talking about the public purse. We have a constitutional responsibility as parliamentarians to be able to address the issue of cost. As a result of this legislation, costs are being imposed on the provinces that may cause them to contract services. We will not be giving this the appropriate discussion.
Let me mention another thematic aspect that is transformative in the legislation and that we will not have an opportunity to discuss. One can say one is in favour of this legislation. But there is a thematic approach in the nine bills. It gives the executive the exercise of power that it did not have before.
I don't want to belabour this point. I'll refer to case studies. One is the legislation we discussed on Tuesday. We lost the notion with regard to whether the government should alone have the executive discretion to designate the governments on the terrorist list. I happen to think this is a mistake. The government feels it wants to go ahead. Victor Comras, who was a witness is previous discussions, says not to go there. We did that. We lost that. That's fine. I'm just making the point about executive discretion. This comes up with regard to the transfer of offenders. This legislation will imbue the Minister of Public Security with discretion that he would not otherwise have had.
I respect the Minister of Public Security. I believe he's a responsible person. I don't believe we should be putting into legislation that we will imbue whoever the Minister of Public Security is with that kind of power. This is, after all, a parliamentary democracy, and we need to keep that power with Parliament and with the people.
That's the other transformative impact of this legislation. This legislation transforms the roles and responsibilities of the respective actors in the criminal justice process. It transforms the role of the judiciary, because the nature of the sentencing reforms dramatically transforms not only the nature and role of the judiciary but also sentencing principles. Some witnesses have said it sets us back 100 years. I'm not going to make the statement as to whether it does or doesn't, Mr. Chairman. I'm saying we don't have the opportunity to debate the whole spectrum of sentencing reform. Those are serious reforms. They deserve discussion.
As to the role of the judiciary, whether it be eliminating conditional sentences or eliminating judicial discretion, that's serious, Mr. Chairman. That requires discussion and debate, whether we talk about the whole question of the role of the prosecutor, the role of defence counsel, the role of witness testimony, all the actors in the criminal process.... Mr. Chairman, we're saying here that we don't care about the witness testimony that we heard about these things and we're not going to allow for any more discussion in respect of that witness testimony? We're just going to go ahead and hijack the process?
What kind of respect, Mr. Chairman, does that show for all the witnesses who appeared before us, on either side? I was pleased to hear the testimony of witnesses brought forward by the government. Yesterday evening, I discussed this with a group here in Ottawa, and I said that having witness testimony was a valuable process. I thought we didn't have enough time for it. Even that was short-circuited, with five minutes per witness. But, okay, we agreed to that, so we did it.
But to go ahead now and not allow the appropriate debate and the appropriate discussion on each—on each, I repeat, Mr. Chairman—of the nine bills, each of which has a transformative impact on our criminal justice system.... Mr. Chairman, we're not talking about one omnibus Safe Streets and Communities Act, which by its title validates everything, or about the mantra of a mandate that says “we can do anything”. We are talking about—and I close, Mr. Chairman—our role in a parliamentary democracy and in a constitutional democracy. We're talking about our role as parliamentarians. We're talking about our responsibilities to our constituents. We're talking about our responsibilities for constitutional oversight.
Mr. Chairman, I don't like to use the words that I did when I began, and I don't like to have to close with them, but I have to somehow convey the sense of urgency, and, indeed, I would say, the sense of hurt I feel about this type of legislation. Given the importance--the historical importance--of these nine bills, given the transformative impact they will have on our criminal justice system, to hijack the discussion and the debate makes this, I regret to say, a black day for a parliamentary democracy and a shameful day for a constitutional democracy.