That's the reason I will go with what the motion actually says. The motion in essence is saying that the debate on clause-by-clause will end tonight. If this motion were to pass, the bill itself will have passed through the clause-by-clause debate. The government, in its wisdom, has made that decision. Mr. Chairperson, it's put very restrictive limitations on how long a person can actually talk on a clause or put forward questions or ideas, or even the potential of amendments.
It's interesting, the government is suggesting that no matter what the clause is, it all warrants the same amount of time. I would suggest to you that some clauses in the bill would likely pass relatively quickly. Other clauses would not.
I want to make reference to one witness who highlighted that particular point. I think it's worth reading what this witness said, Mr. Chairperson. This was by Ms. Kathy Vandergrift. It's noteworthy that she was the chair of the board of directors of the Canadian Coalition for the Rights of Children, a fairly significant stakeholder, I would suggest to you, Mr. Chairperson. No doubt you'll find that many stakeholders out there, prior to making presentations, may have had the opportunity to consult with a wide variety of people—other stakeholders, lay people, individuals they're in contact with on a day-in, day-out basis. In her presentation, there's one part that I want to read. It states that:
We would like to offer the following suggestions based on the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which Canada ratified in 1991. First of all, we express support for improved protection of children from sexual exploitation in part 2. Secondly, we suggest that you remove part 4 from the omnibus bill and take no further action on it until all members of Parliament are fully informed about the ways in which these changes fulfill or violate Canada's obligations under the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
I would suggest to you, Mr. Chairperson, that this particular presenter is saying that in this bill there are some clauses that deserve passage. If you follow her recommendation on part 4, some clauses are going to be a lot more controversial. So if you really think about it, to apply one rule would have an impact on both types of clauses—one that needs to have healthy debate, and I would suggest to you warrants healthy debate. We should not be taking actions to limit that debate. That's really what this motion actually does, Mr. Chairperson. It does limit debate. Contrast that to, as I said, some motions that require very little debate.
So I do have a problem with that, Mr. Chairperson. You always have to put things into perspective. Bill C-10 is indeed a unique bill. The process that has led us to this point has been most interesting. There have been many variations of this bill in the past. They have been brought into one bill, the bill we have before us now. This bill itself has in excess of over 100 clauses. If you take a look at the bill, it's very comprehensive and has an impact on a number of pieces of legislation. I cannot imagine how this bill could actually pass out of committee in a few hours, if in fact you go clause by clause.
We have a system wherein we like to think there's a sense of respect, where we try to accommodate.
Our critic would have been told, for example, that we're continuing with the clause-by-clause this morning, and at the beginning he had anticipated that it would be a two-hour type of meeting, that there would be a lot of dialogue, and then eventually the bill would pass, even though there wasn't that much notice. To be told that everything that you have done or any other appointments that you may have today have to be pushed to the side because the government has made the decision that it wants this bill to pass today...a couple of things come to my mind when I hear that, Mr. Chairperson.
First and foremost, where did that instruction come from? Where did it originate? That's one concern I would have. The other concern I would have is in regard to the whole idea of the sense of fairness to our critics. We have to respect that critics, members of Parliament, and ministers all have agendas and obligations they have to meet. You'll find quite often—more often than not—that they will bend, that they will try to fit their agenda to accommodate committees, because we recognize how important our committee hearings are; we recognize how important it is to continue to have dialogue and to be constructive wherever we can in terms of trying to make change.
So it would have been advisable for the government to have entered into some discussion as to what their intent was when we came into committee first thing this morning. I think it was a huge mistake for the government not to have done that. It's a simple courtesy that could have very easily been extended and would have allowed for, whether it's the Liberal critic or the NDP critic, the opportunity to be able to discuss it amongst their caucuses and see if in fact this is something that is doable. And if it's not, then allow the critics and the appropriate members, or possibly the House leaders, to sit down.
Filibusters often will happen because of the inability of ministers, critics, House leaders, even to a certain degree party whips, to reach an agreement. I've had, as I say, the opportunity, like my colleague from the New Democratic Party, to have come from a provincial legislature. I was there for over 18 years. It was always in opposition, unfortunately, but the point is that I do have some experience in terms of how a House operates. I've had the opportunity to be a House leader for many of those years. I understand why it's so important...if you want to have an effective, efficient system, a system that works, you have to have negotiations. There have to be discussions. If those negotiations are not taking place, you are setting yourself up for failure. And you will fail. Even with a majority government, you will fail.
I can recall when another majority government felt that they could do whatever they wanted, and attempted to walk over the opposition. At the end of the day, they were not able to pass a series of bills, Mr. Chairman, and it's because they did not work with the opposition in order to be able to try to get some things done.
So what happens now is that we have a committee, and inside the committee a motion that has been brought down. I don't think any member from the Conservative Party who has actually attended the committee so far today had anything to do with the creation of this particular idea to bring down this motion. I would suggest to you, Mr. Chairperson, that this particular motion came from either the minister or, I would suggest to you, from the PMO.
I believe this is something in which there's this new-found belief that they are the majority and the opposition had better respect it, and if they don't respect it, who cares, they're getting what they want.
They've made the decision that they're going to push Bill C-10 through the system as quickly as possible, and they have not respected the needs and the desires of members of Parliament on the opposition benches. Instead, they believe they have the mandate to do what they're actually doing, Mr. Chairperson.
I suspect it might be some pent-up resentment towards opposition parties from the years of being in a minority situation. If the office of the Prime Minister would seriously look at the consequences of what they're asking members of this committee to do.... I would suggest to you that it was a bad idea. If in fact there would have been any sort of gesture of good faith, or goodwill, to work with opposition critics, we wouldn't be going through what we're going through right now, Mr. Chairperson.
At the end of the day, I believe that it is important to do this. Because you see, Mr. Chairperson, if you don't do things of this nature and you allow the government, whether it's in committee or it's in the House, to walk over opposition members and their rights to be able to speak and address issues, it will get worse. That's the reason why...here we are, we're not even six months, seven months, into this majority government, and look at the types of actions we have seen. If the opposition does not say stop, let's look at what the government is attempting to do, and start to say that it's just not right and take a position, our rights will continue to be walked on. That's the way I see this issue.
I see this issue as the government having this new-found mentality that they're a majority government and they don't care what the opposition has to say on legislation or the budget, and they have a right to bring in motions of this nature. And they have majorities on every committee, so they'll instruct their members to move, in this case, this particular motion, which limits the ability for a clause-by-clause debate.
Mr. Chair, I think it's a fine line. I was inside the chamber and my colleague from the New Democrats made reference to Bill C-10 once it was in second reading. Remember Bill C-10 at second reading? There was a time allocation also moved on the bill. Well, I'm not a prophet, but I suspect that the government will likely move time allocation once it gets back, Mr. Chairperson.
Why? Well, because in their mind, they can do it. They have the majority. They don't really care. A good example, Mr. Chairperson, is a motion that was introduced just the other day in the House, where the government moved to adjourn debate and force the vote, and there wasn't even one other member of the opposition allowed to speak on the motion. That's in essence what we're getting into here.
We're talking about the ability for members of Parliament to be able to go through a process that's fair, that allows them to be able to ask the questions they want to ask, and that allows them to bring forward amendments that they believe are necessary, Mr. Chairperson. I think the government would do so much better if it would just acknowledge the need to withdraw their motion in hopes that we could get on to the clause-by-clause.
That's the best thing the government could do today. If it withdrew the motion right now, we would go right into the clause-by-clause discussions, and if it means we're here Tuesday and Thursday...I don't think there's any intention by anyone to see this bill go past Thursday. I don't think so. I don't know that 100%, but let's at least allow the clause-by-clause to go without restrictions.
This way, on those clauses of great substance, the opposition is afforded the opportunity to make the amendments it needs to make and it is afforded the opportunity to debate.
I get this feeling, Mr. Chairperson, that I'm going to get other opportunities to speak, so I'll just leave it at that for now, as I will listen to others. I have to go to another room, but I will listen to be able to contribute, if in fact it continues on this particular motion.
I would suggest that we not pass this motion. I look to other members of the committee to try to ensure that this motion does not pass. I hope to be able to continue on the debate on the motion as the evening goes on, or ideally, hopefully, the government will see the wisdom of withdrawing the motion so that we can get on to the debate and questions and answers on the clause-by-clause. And in due course—the government shouldn't fear—the bill will in fact pass, Mr. Chairman, out of committee. Hopefully calmer heads will prevail.
I will continue my remarks a little later in the evening. Thank you.