Evidence of meeting #13 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clause.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Catherine Kane  Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Daryl Churney  Director, Corrections Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

It is and it is not. There's a generic approach to the “exceptional circumstances”. That is what failed with regard to the regime. This has to do with the particularity of where the “exceptional circumstances” is caught up in the matter of the mental illness of the offender. The other one was more generic. This one is more specific, Mr. Chairman.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Maybe we should just vote on it.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

I think we should just vote on it, because we're going to end up--

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

With a procedural haggle. We might as well just vote, because we know what the outcome's going to be in any case.

(Amendment negatived)

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

That's quicker than procedurally going about it.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Sorry.

Yes, Mr. Jean.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

On a point of order, I did have a comment on the last one. I just wanted to clarify with Mr. Cotler that of course he knows that the Criminal Code deals with mental incapacity already in relation to the intent to commit. So although he has set it out in this and it's been defeated, I believe the reality is that it's already contained within the Criminal Code.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

We've now dealt with the amendments.

(Clause 34 agreed to)

Mr. Harris, you were suggesting clauses 35 through clause 38....

9:35 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

On clause 35 through clause 38, I don't think we need any further discussion on that group. That's part of the child sexual offences group, so we would propose to have a vote on that, which would be treated the same as the earlier vote on clauses 10 to 31. And we would be voting in favour of those clauses as a group.

(Clauses 35 to 38 inclusive agreed to)

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

It is unanimous.

Now, on clause 39, I believe we have a number of NDP amendments and one Liberal amendment.

(On clause 39)

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

I have a proposal, sir.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Yes.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

As mentioned at the end of the meeting on Thursday, there was a group of amendments that relate to the mandatory minimum sentences, and in this particular case, the ones coming up would be clauses 39 to 43, which cover various aspects of the minimum mandatory sentences. I would propose to put them to the end of the current clause-by-clause discussion so that they would be debated afterwards, if that's agreeable to the meeting.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Is that agreeable to the committee?

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Fine.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

So to get this straight, those are clauses 39, 40, 41, 42, and 43?

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Correct.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Okay. We'll stand clauses 39 to 43 inclusive. That gets us to clause 44.

Mr. Harris.

(On clause 44)

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Thank you, Chair.

We are supporting clause 44. There's no amendment being proposed by us or by anybody, I think.

It's important for us, because if one looks at it, it's a whole series of additions to schedule I of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, moving a number of items from schedule III to schedule I—schedule I being the drugs treated most seriously under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, and schedule III being the ones treated least seriously.

We are supporting this clause because among other things, it moves certain drugs to schedule I, amphetamines being one of them and the other being the date rape drugs, which are both particularly egregious in terms of their use in society. Amphetamines are drugs that are considerably seriously abused. They're prescription drugs, mostly, that find their way into use on the street and are particularly difficult to deal with. They're addictive. They lead to other aspects of crime and they should be treated the same as the many other drugs that need a greater level of control, and should be there.

The date rape drugs should not be treated flimsily. These are, as we all know, used in circumstances that involve the exploitation of young women almost entirely, I should think, and ought to be treated seriously, more seriously obviously than some other drugs.

We had a situation where amphetamines and the date rape drugs were treated less seriously than cannabis—marijuana—and we don't think that's appropriate.

I don't have much more to say about that, although my colleague Madame Boivin.... Are you leaving us?

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Finished. Sorry.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

I thought she might want to add something to that. Perhaps Madame Borg would like to add a few words to that, on the issue of moving the date rape drugs and the amphetamines to schedule I so that they would be treated more seriously under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. I've only used a few minutes of our allotted time, so perhaps one of my colleagues would like to add something to that.

That's the reason we're supporting it, Chair. We think it's a positive step.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Madame Borg.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, we think that adding these drugs to the list is a positive step that will improve the Criminal Code. This is a concern, particularly among young women. It is a step forward, in my opinion.

I know that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women is also looking at this matter. They are also specifically concerned about violence against women.

So this is a positive step that we fully support.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie

Thank you.

(Clause 44 agreed to)

Clause 45. Mr. Harris.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

We support clause 45 as well, as a coordinating amendment to clause 44.