Good morning. By way of introduction, really quick, I'm Acting Superintendent Greg Preston of the Edmonton Police Service, but I'm here representing the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, the CACP, and its law amendments committee.
I'd like to say at the outset that CACP does support the passage of Bill C-26. We think it's important that citizens be recognized, that when they do act, they have self-defence available to them. We believe that this will assist the police in understanding, to be able to better determine whether or not somebody who does act does so lawfully. The streamlined process that's proposed here will do that, and that will assist us.
The other area we'd like to comment on is that while we would prefer that trained and equipped police officers engage in the actual arrest, we do realize that the reality is that there will be certain situations where citizens do respond, whether that's as a good citizen to the neighbour or just to any other person they see. So the reality is that people will act. As I said at the outset, we'd prefer if we were on every street corner, but that's not the reality of the world. It is inevitable, and as such we certainly support the idea that they would be recognized for that.
There is one area I would like to comment on that's open for some discussion, possibly, by the committee in considering whether maybe an amendment might be necessary. That has to do with the way that subsection 494(2) is currently worded, as well as the proposed amendments, in that the bill still speaks of "if they find them committing". That's the current wording of the section, “finds committing”, as well as the proposed piece to it. As the backgrounder, the bill speaks to being caught in the act.
I just want to highlight that there's been a change in technology, obviously, over the last number of years, and that's through CCTV--closed-circuit television. Quite often we're finding that many department stores, for example--and it's not just department stores, but we are called to many of these--utilize CCTV in their loss prevention. The LPOs, or loss prevention officers, will be monitoring their store and looking for thefts through CCTV, so you'll have somebody in a monitor room, and they'll be watching the CCTV. They might observe somebody who appears to be committing an offence. What they then do is they'll call down to the floor LPO. They'll do that normally through radio or through a cellphone. They'll be relaying their observations of what is going on and why they believe that somebody's committing a crime. They relay that to the floor LPO. That particular floor LPO will then, at some point, generally speaking, be the one that will then move in to make the arrest.
I would submit to you that in a certain situation like that, and in many cases, they have never observed any aspect of the commission of the offence. In fact, quite often they will stay out of the area so as not to heat the individual up, not to spook them. So they want to see if the person really is committing an offence or if they're just going about their business. When the offence is committed, and it's been relayed to them that the person did select the item, did conceal the item, and now they're walking towards the exit, that's when the floor LPO will move in.
I would submit that at that point in time, when they move in to make the arrest, it's not "finds committing". In essence what they are relying on is reasonable and probable grounds. I know that some might debate and say that the offence is still an ongoing crime at that point in time, and therefore it's still "finds committing". I would suggest that it's not the case, that it really is reasonable and probable grounds they're operating under.
I would submit to you the case of the Queen v. Biron. It's a 1976 Supreme Court decision. It's cited in the materials I provided, but for ease of reference, it's [1976] 2 S.C.R. 56 - page 72. I believe that supports my position that what you have here really is an RPG, not a "finds committing".
If that is the case, and I know that this is not an issue where it's directly the police being involved, I still speak to it because the police are called to these incidents where we are required under subsection 494(3) to be called forthwith, to have this person delivered to us, so we still have to be satisfied that the arrest was lawful. Otherwise, we arguably are taking on an unlawful arrest, unless we can form some other grounds to continue the arrest. On occasion, we'll be called to investigate that loss prevention officer for the unlawful arrest, an assault.
We do have an interest in this, and we do believe that some consideration should be had to that particular element. Beyond that basis, we do support the passing of the bill.
I want to thank you for the time and giving the opportunity for the police community to have some input. Obviously I'll be willing to answer any questions you may have.