Thank you. I would like to address some of the comments opposite.
Yes, I agree that Professor Kaiser did have intelligent and thoughtful comments. I'm a little surprised, though, that the main point, according to Mr. Woodworth, would be denunciation.
There is room for denunciation in sentencing in general, particularly in appropriate cases. Judges are certainly aware of that. The main motivator of sentencing in general, however, is the protection of the public and how that is best achieved by our criminal justice system. I just want to make sure people understand that when we are looking at the comparison between the new provision we're talking about in Bill C-217—a provision for a specific crime of mischief in relation to war memorials or cenotaphs—we see that a particular crime against religious objects such as synagogues and mosques and churches must be in fact motivated by hatred or prejudice. Therefore, a swastika on a synagogue would be prosecuted more severely because it is motivated by hatred, hatred of a particular group of people.
I don't need to remind anybody that the Second World War was fought against an enemy that carried out the mass slaughter of Jewish people throughout Europe, so when we talk about a swastika on a synagogue or a Jewish cemetery, we're talking about someone inciting that kind of hatred.
When we talk about desecration of a war memorial, we may be talking about something inane, idiotic, stupid, misunderstood, or whatever, and if we're talking about denunciation, yes, in appropriate cases there is a proper case for denunciation. Sentences should be appropriate, and the judge would be in a position to do that.
I do want to remind you of the testimony of Terence Whitty, who plays a significant role in the organization of the cadet program in Canada. He talked about the lack of knowledge of our history that young people have in the cadet corps, a place where you would expect there would be a different level of understanding. It's one thing to say that we need to denounce behaviour of this nature, some of which is just based on ignorance, but you can't punish people for not understanding and appreciating their history. That's not a proper subject of criminal sanction, criminal punishment, but in some instances that is exactly what we're talking about.
A first cousin of my father's was in World War I. It makes him my first cousin once removed. He lies in a field in Beaumont-Hamel in France. I visited his grave, but none of us have any special claim to having people who lost their lives and made sacrifices in war.
I understand fully how important it is to memorialize these people. We have what we call in Newfoundland and Labrador a national war memorial on Duckworth Street—it used to be in my riding, but it's slightly off there now—that is called a “national war memorial” because we were then a nation, and small though we were, we made a significant sacrifice in World War I. The memory of that is very dear to me and very dear to people in Newfoundland and Labrador, but we do recognize that there needs to be some flexibility in how you deal with an offence involving damage to a cenotaph or war memorial.
I suppose you could pick and choose from Patricia Varga's letter if you wish, but I will read this paragraph in its entirety because I think we need to get the flavour of this. When Patricia Varga wrote, she couldn't come as a witness, but she offered her views and took the opportunity to comment on the text.
Obviously they strongly support the intent to include instances of mischief against a war memorial or cenotaph or any object associated with honouring or remembering these Canadian men and women who paid the supreme sacrifice in the service of Canada during war and on subsequent operations.
She did say that the membership “...is strongly in favour of recognizing the serious nature of these incidents and in consideration of the feelings and the emotions expressed by all Canadians against such acts.”
She goes on to say in the same paragraph:We do however feel that the provision of appropriate penalties suitable to the individual particulars of an incident should reflect the nature of these acts and there should be latitude in assessing the gravity of the situation.
The punishment should fit the crime and although no incident of this nature can be condoned, there should be provision for restorative justice measures with a mandated dialogue between veterans groups and the offenders. There should be provision where offenders are encouraged to take responsibility for their actions, to repair the harm they have done, by apologizing to a group of Veterans, or with community services. It provides help for the offender to avoid future offences and provides a greater understanding of the consequences of their actions.
We need to encourage greater understanding, greater appreciation. We understand that some of the people who testified before us, who were themselves veterans, are getting older and may not be the ones to do it, but the Canadian Legion is going to go on, and the memory is going to go on, and it's up to us as parliamentarians and members of society. In fact, in the last number of years we have seen a growing interest and concern and participation in remembrance services. All members of Parliament have acknowledged that and have commented on it in their own ridings. We see it in small towns and we see it in large places, and that education is growing.
I suspect that you're going to see, as a result, a significant decrease in incidents of this nature, and I don't think we need to put denunciation at the top of the list of the sentencing provisions as the primary motivation for this legislation.
I strongly support the approach suggested by the Royal Canadian Legion. Putting the Bill C-217 portion that sets aside a separate provision recognizing the seriousness into the Criminal Code acts in itself as a denunciatory act and, in the appropriate circumstances and when denunciation is the top-of-mind response, we would want to see our judges use that as a means of determining an appropriate sentence.
However, the sentence must fit the crime. Everybody should agree with that as a general principle, and it is not for Parliament to set down what the specific sentence should be in every particular offence when we have highly educated, highly trained, highly experienced, and intelligent judges who are in place to do that for us. We as parliamentarians ought to provide the legislative framework and let the judges do their work.
Those are my comments, Mr. Chairman, in response to some of the comments opposite.