Justice Committee on May 29th, 2012

[Michael Spratt]

Yes.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Okay. So—

[Michael Spratt]

From a policy perspective, no.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Right, so would it be fair to say that you can't think of any circumstance where an MMP is appropriate? You don't think there should be any MMPs.

[Michael Spratt]

That's right.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

So no matter what crime, there should not be a mandatory minimum penalty.

[Michael Spratt]

Yes. It doesn't mean that I don't think there should be very harsh and severe penalties for certain crimes.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

You seem to also suggest that there shouldn't be maximum penalties either.

[Michael Spratt]

The logic would flow that there shouldn't be maximum penalties either.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

So you don't believe Parliament should give any guidance to the courts on sentencing; it should be a complete judicial discretion.

[Michael Spratt]

Oh no, Parliament gives many forms of guidance on sentencing. Let's just look at—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

If you don't put a minimum or a maximum, what guidance is Parliament giving to the judiciary on sentences?

[Michael Spratt]

Well, there are the principles of sentencing in the Criminal Code. There are aggravating and mitigating factors that judges can be directed to look at. Those are the types of useful guidance....

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Okay. People who come to this committee to oppose MMPs routinely say that these things do not deter. I take it that's your position as well, that MMPs don't constitute deterrence.

[Michael Spratt]

Yes. Of course, being a criminal practitioner, I haven't done the studies myself—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Right, but—

[Michael Spratt]

—but from what I've read, yes, that's right.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

But you do recognize that there are two types of deterrence, right? There are general deterrents, which is what you're talking about in saying that the public won't in general be deterred by an MMP, but there are also specific deterrents, correct?

[Michael Spratt]

Yes.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

So when this person is in jail for a minimum of five years and cannot reoffend, they are specifically deterred from committing crimes against children.

[Michael Spratt]

Well, they are prevented from committing further crimes—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Right. So they're specifically deterred....

[Michael Spratt]

Well, no, they're prevented from committing certain crimes, but it's interesting to look at: do lengthy periods of incarceration lead to less recidivism—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Well, that's a completely different argument—

[Michael Spratt]

It's not really, is it?