Justice Committee on Nov. 29th, 2012

[Bill Pentney]

Welcome to budget mysteries. That has to do with both departments' budgets. We are responsible for defending the government—either regarding laws or any actions taken by the Government of Canada. A portion of our budget is part of our ongoing A base, and another portion is made up of revenue stemming from client cost recovery—so costs recovered from departments. The monetary burden is shared. We have an operational budget of about $368 million and, we can recover $290 million in costs from clients from other departments.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Okay. Excellent.

Sometimes, I am shocked when I see how much money is spent on legal proceedings, when an out-of-court settlement would have probably cost much less. Does the Department of Justice encourage other departments and crown corporations that depend on the federal government to not get involved in trials that last 5, 10 or 15 years? That would benefit Canadian taxpayers. This is 2012.

[Bill Pentney]

We are currently involved in about 50,000 prosecutions or trials. Most proceedings are brought by Canadians against the government. We have to defend the government.

We worked closely with the Canada Revenue Agency to establish a complaint management system. I can establish connections with some savings made as part of the previous budget. We have worked with a few departments on establishing a more effective and less expensive process, but most of the spending has nothing to do with proceedings. It has to do with defending the government when Canadians initiate legal recourses against departments and laws.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

I am sure that my colleagues, like myself, have been approached by certain taxpayers who told us about their case. Without getting involved in their case, the lawyer in me says that this cannot be happening. We see harassment cases—which could have been resolved through a mediation—go to court and last 5, 6 or 7 years. That costs Canadian taxpayers millions of dollars. I don't think this is a very intelligent way to do things.

[Bill Pentney]

That is true.

Several years ago, the Department of Justice created a centre of expertise in mediation and complaints. We have provided a lot of training, and we are trying to establish mechanisms for resolving most complaints, especially in the area of employment within the federal government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

Is that the last question?

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

That was my last last question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

I want to thank the panel for being here. I think we all learned a great deal, and that's the important part of these meetings. Thank you very much.

I do need the committee to vote on the items we have before us.

Shall vote 1b carry?

JUSTICE

Department

Vote 1b—Operating expenditures..........$1,757,990

(Vote 1b agreed to)

Shall vote 5b carry?

Vote 5b—The grants listed in the Estimates and contributions..........$21,630,000

(Vote 5b agreed to)

Shall vote 30b carry?

Courts Administration Service

Vote 30b—Program expenditures..........$3,028,012

(Vote 30b agreed to)

Shall vote 35b carry?

Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions

Vote 35b—Program expenditures..........$1

(Vote 35b agreed to)

Shall I report the votes on the supplementary estimates to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

I will do that on Monday.

Now we have committee business.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, Delta—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to move that all committee business move in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

We just need to take a minute.

[Proceedings continue in camera]