Justice Committee on March 27th, 2013

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

The player might want to as well, because athletes—

[Tom Wright]

The player might want to as well, but the player doesn't have a choice. It's regulated by a third party independent commission, which I think is interesting.

Like every other professional sport, we are very concerned about health and safety. We're concerned about head injuries. We're concerned about concussions. We are actually funding and supporting primary research in several university hospitals in the United States to make sure we're knowledgeable and informed about this, and we continue to do these things. But, again, providing for the consistent regulatory environment will allow for promotions, big and small, to be held to the same standards.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

Mr. Regan, your turn, and my apologies. I missed you.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Well, Mr. Chairman, as a visitor to the committee I'm not certain of the order. If you hadn't told me, I wouldn't have known, so don't apologize. I appreciate that very much.

Thank you, Mr. Wright, for appearing before us today.

You heard my questions earlier. Are you aware of any studies, other than the ones referred to by Senator Runciman, that can compare injuries, particularly concussion-type injuries, from mixed martial arts to boxing or other sports?

[Tom Wright]

There are some, and I would be more than happy to provide you with either links to their websites or copies of them. The interesting thing is that the Johns Hopkins University study, which I think Mr. Pacetti was referencing, demonstrated that there were no more significant traumatic head injuries in the sport of mixed martial arts than there were in boxing. There are other studies that have been done that actually show a significantly lower number of traumatic head injuries.

One of the fundamental differences, of course, with mixed martial arts, is that there are multiple ways to win and multiple ways to lose; whereas in boxing it's principally one or two. The other distinguishing difference between the two sports comes in the training for the sport. This is anecdotal evidence, data that have been shared with me by people who have been brought up in the boxing community, but the notion is typically that for every round that a boxer would fight in an actual competition, be it 10 or 12, those boxers tend to spar for about 100 rounds in their training. If you're training for mixed martial arts, you will do some striking, some boxing training, but you will also train in takedown defence, grappling, and submissions in wrestling and judo or karate, whatever it happens to be. What happens in that kind of environment is that if you're only training one way and then you're only competing one way, the logic is that there will be more traumatic head injuries. The actual facts tend to bear that out.

I think somebody else was mentioning earlier about some of the traumatic head injuries that happen in horseback riding. It's interesting. I read an article just the other day about two doctors from the province of Alberta who were writing in response to the Canadian Medical Association's policy statement calling for a ban on mixed martial arts. These are two doctors who were disappointed that the Canadian Medical Association seemed to be coming from more of an emotional decision; it wasn't based on fact. With the traumas they've seen and dealt with in the hospitals, there are far more injuries from equestrian events, from hockey, from football, than they ever have seen in mixed martial arts.

I can provide you with a link to a website in the United States that tracks this. It's called the catastrophic sports injury something....

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

If there are any websites or links or information that you could provide, could you send those to the clerk?

[Tom Wright]

Oh, I'm sorry. I don't know the process. I'd be happy to.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

That's all right. That would be great.

I also want to ask you the question I asked about the tourism benefits when the previous two witnesses were here, and what your thoughts are on that.

I'd better add my other question to that one because I won't have a chance otherwise. I'm sure that fans in Nova Scotia, and I guess in a sense maybe it's opponents, too, would want to know what the chances are of MMA coming to Nova Scotia soon. As I mentioned, Halifax is a well-known city and Nova Scotia has a great boxing history.

[Tom Wright]

I'll answer your second question first.

I've already had conversations with individuals in Halifax at the Metro convention centre. I'd like nothing better than at some point to bring the UFC to Atlantic Canada. I have every expectation that it will happen. The economic benefits I believe would be tremendous.

When we held UFC 129 in Toronto, the first event that was held in Ontario after the Province of Ontario sanctioned the sport coming into 2011, the direct economic impact into the province was north of $35 million. We had 55,000 people attend. We sold tickets to that event in all 10 provinces, all 3 territories, and all 50 states, and in every continent in the world, except Antarctica. The economic impact was tremendous. I know that to be a fact. I'd be happy to provide the clerk with that information. We also did economic impact studies for the two events we've held in Vancouver, again with tremendous success.

Not only do we believe that those events provide great economic impact, but I can tell you that the growth and the development of gyms, of MMA clubs, and of different combative sport clubs, has been significant and parallel to the growth of our sport. We have an athlete who used to compete, Jason MacDonald, out of Red Deer, Alberta. When he first started with the UFC, he had to go to San Jose to train because there were no facilities in Alberta for him to train at.

When I last chatted with him when we went to Calgary in July of last year, he was telling me that there are 77 mixed martial arts training facilities alone in the city of Calgary. That's another economic driver. These are small businesses. Everybody around here knows how small business as the economic driver of our country is very important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you, Mr. Wright.

Thank you, Mr. Regan.

I need permission from the committee in regard to any submissions to the clerk that are in one language, either English or French. For them to be circulated, they need to be bilingual, which won't be the case for some of those studies, obviously. I need permission to circulate them even if they're in only one of our official languages.

Think about it right now. Let me know by the end of the meeting, okay?

[A voice]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

I don't want Mr. Wright to go to all that work so that the clerk gets to see it but none of the rest of us do.

Our next questioner is Mr. WIlks from the Conservative Party.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If I could get permission from you and the other side to recognize Mr. Leef, I'll share my time with him.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Yes. Any member who comes to the committee can ask questions. He wouldn't be entitled to vote if there were a vote. That's the only thing.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Well, we didn't want him to vote anyway.

[An hon. member]

Too many head shots—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Anyway, thank you very much, Mr. Wright, for coming today. It was a pleasure to meet you a few months ago back in the Yukon.

One of the clarifications I have, of course, is on section 83 of the code. This will bring it up to a standard from the perspective of a national level. Everyone will be clear in understanding what section 83 is across the board from the perspective of the professional mixed martial arts contest.

The one thing that I did notice—and I know you're not a lawyer, so I don't expect an answer—is that under paragraph 83(1)(c), it also says “is present at a prize fight as an aid, second, surgeon, umpire, backer or reporter”. From the perspective of this bill, it will also protect them as well. Is that my understanding from this? Otherwise, it is the fighter that we're protecting, but not necessarily anyone else. I'm assuming that this amendment will also clarify that.

Could you answer that?

[Tom Wright]

Thank you, Mr. Wilks.

I think I can, although I'd be lying if I said that I read that section of the code, but I believe the circumstances are that, under the code, prizefighting is a summary conviction offence for participants, promoters, organizers, and everybody who's tied to it, not just the two athletes. It can be their corners, the referees, and the officials, and I guess conceivably it could be me. Yes, I think that's the other issue that needs to be brought forward, and I thank you for bringing it forward.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Leef.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Wilks.

Thank you, Mr. Wright. It's good to see you again.

All competitive sports have some element of risk. As legislators and as people involved in the sport, we try to do our best for risk management. As a former competitor, both in long-distance running for team Canada and as a mixed martial artist, I'm probably fairly well-rounded with the fight or flight syndrome.

You talked a bit about the minimum standards and then said that UFC tries to go above and beyond those. I think it's beneficial to the Canadian public and people wondering about the sport to know generally what the minimum standards look like. In long-distance running as an example—I was just reading an interesting article on the Boston Marathon—people drop like flies. You can just pay your money and enter a marathon. It takes tremendous training and skill to run one, but there's nothing stopping people from just doing that.

Could you contrast what the general minimum standards are for mixed martial arts competitions compared to those of other sports? If I were interested in paying a fee and jumping inside a field, an octagon, a ring, or whatever to participate in a semi-professional amateur mixed martial arts competition, would I be able to just do that?

[Tom Wright]

Hopefully in an environment where it's properly regulated, you would not be able to do that. Obviously I'm not a lawyer; I can't guarantee anything. I also can't compare our sport to other sports because I don't really know the other sports as well. I could maybe compare them to football.

I'll use as a very practical example the event that just happened in Montreal, UFC 158, which was held under the commission oversight of the Quebec combative athletic commission. Some four to seven weeks before that, every single fighter who was going to compete had to apply for a licence with the Province of Quebec. In doing so, they had to provide certain medical information, certain proof that they had ophthalmological tests, certain proof they had MRIs, certain blood tests for hepatitis B and hepatitis A, and all those kinds of things. There's a real regimen of medical testing that was required.

Every single corner or individual who was going to be supporting that fighter also had to apply for a licence, making sure they were properly trained, properly prepared.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

These are athletes who have already participated in the past.

[Tom Wright]

Absolutely, these are athletes who have already participated in the past. In our case, only athletes who have either been competing for the UFC or have a long professional record of success in other promotions would actually compete with us. But it's not just for us. If there's another promotion that's working in Atlantic Canada or maybe in British Columbia, the commission in British Columbia would ask the same questions as the Quebec one did. It's not just us who are asked the same questions in Quebec, say, but every other promotion that is trying to bring forward a competition would have the same requirements made of them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you, Mr. Wright.

Thank you, Mr. Leef.

Our next questioner is Mr. Mai from the New Democratic Party.