Evidence of meeting #67 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sport.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Ontario (Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes), CPC
I'm not sure that we'll be able to convince them.
3:50 p.m.
Ontario (Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes), CPC
We had testimony at the committee to deal with that argument. I referenced some of it, in terms of the studies that have been done in Edmonton with respect to concussions and the significant differences between boxing and mixed martial arts. As well, we had the ringside doctor from Vancouver whom I referenced earlier indicating that he is seeing many more concussions from snowboarding than he is seeing from even boxing. We're hearing all the time about concussions in hockey, in football, in professional football and even amateur sports as well.
When you look at the record of mixed martial arts, and Mr. Wright will be able to speak to this in more detail, it is a pretty good record of safety. From the way they monitor their athletes before and after the fight, by independent medical personnel, I think they have gone the extra mile, if you will, to ensure that the athletes are as safe as they possibly could be in a sport in which there is always going to be some risk of injuries occurring. I think they are doing exceedingly well in protecting the folks who go into the ring.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
I can make a couple of comments.
I didn't speak to the Canadian Medical Association. I don't think we as parliamentarians have to be perceived as promoting combat sports. This is an update to the Criminal Code, in which something was lacking. It's out of respect for combat sports that we update the Criminal Code.
But all the statistics I've seen—somebody e-mailed me a Hopkins study—show that there are not more head concussions related to combat sports than there are to other sports such as hockey and boxing.
Is this piece of legislation going to make it safer or worse? I don't believe so; I think it's just going to make it more legit for companies like UFC and other recognized sporting companies, which are going to put more energy into making it safer, rather than put their energy into ensuring that their i's are dotted and their t's are crossed, because the event is going to be legal instead of illegal.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Thank you, gentlemen, and thank you for your questions.
Our next questioner is Mr. Regan from the Liberal Party.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Senator, colleague, thank you both for being here today.
I come from Halifax, which is known as a boxing city. Boxing has been very popular in Halifax for many years.
One of the things that struck me as you were talking, Senator, was this question of the tap-out, and how it might differ from throwing in the towel. I recognize that throwing in the towel is what the boxers' managers would normally do, rather than the boxers themselves, and that may be the main distinction.
Do you know whether there is any evidence to suggest that there are fewer blows to the head in mixed martial arts than in boxing, and would that account for the statistics you refer to from Edmonton?
3:50 p.m.
Ontario (Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes), CPC
That's certainly something you can pursue with the next witness. My recollection of the testimony is that there are fewer blows to the head. If you look at the length of the bouts, I'm not sure; some of them are three rounds, some six rounds—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
March 27th, 2013 / 3:50 p.m.
Ontario (Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes), CPC
—and if you look at boxing, in which there are 10 rounds or 12 rounds now, and there used to be 15, and look at the blows to the head, in that boxing format the opportunities for more strikes to the head are significantly more frequent than in mixed martial arts. I can't recall the specifics, but that was roughly the testimony we heard at the committee.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
In some ways I'm of two minds on this issue, on both. In some respects I don't like the idea of anybody hitting anybody. On the other hand, I've been a boxing fan and I admire the skills of great boxers such as Sugar Ray Leonard, Muhammad Ali, and we've had many great boxers from Nova Scotia.
3:50 p.m.
A voice
[Inaudible--Editor]
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Yes, there's Trevor Berbick, that's right, and many others. I had better mention the Canadians, such as George Chuvalo, as you say.
3:50 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Let me ask my colleague, Massimo Pacetti, this question. Would you like to talk about why you think the current law is inadequate?
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
As I said in my speech, it's just to bring it up to date. The focus is on trying to define it in a certain way so that it corresponds to the Criminal Code. I think it's inappropriate and that we should bring it up to date.
As a sports buff, I think it's unfortunate that these UFC combats cannot be legitimate. It's what the consumer wants. Why not give them what they want?
I think it's of ultimate importance that the participants be competing in a 100% secure environment. For me, that's what is important. We don't necessarily as parliamentarians say that we support or do not support it, but as a sports buff I have gotten to know some of the competitors, and I have actually been watching some of these UFC events. They train their athletes, and I don't know whether anybody in this room could ever attain their level of fitness.
They are trained for this. It's not something whereby you would just walk down the street and say, “Okay, let's get into a ring and fight for three rounds of three minutes and beat the crap out of each other.”
These are trained athletes, and I have no problem supporting this bill. That's why I sponsored it.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
What are the benefits you see from the bill in areas such as tourism?
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Each province is going to have to decide whether they want to promote these types of events. We're talking about big events.
Not every single event out there is going to be a UFC event with Georges St. Pierre, drawing, if it be in Toronto, 50,000 people, or in Montreal, where we've just had twenty-odd thousand people. I think it's just a way for schools to promote another sport so that the kids can stay off the street, and within proper surroundings promote that sport.
I have a boxing club that started in one of the very low-privileged areas of Montreal. It has been a success. Now they are spinning it off, and they are doing mixed martial arts and all types of contact sports, because that's what kids want. They want to be physical. We're talking about kids in the age range of teens of 14 or 15 all the way to 21 or 22 years of age.
I think it's just one more area.... I hate to use the expression, but it's another tool in the tool box for sports to be viewed in a positive light and not a negative light.
3:55 p.m.
Ontario (Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes), CPC
There was an economic analysis done—I didn't bring it with me—with respect to the economic impact and spinoffs for hotel rooms, restaurants, and so on in Toronto. It was quite significant for just that one event.
As Mr. Pacetti said, these are huge. We're looking at championship fights and those sorts of things. They can have a very significant and positive impact on the local economy.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Thank you very much, gentlemen. Thank you for coming, Senator Runciman and Mr. Pacetti.
That afforded a question to each party, and we're at 3:58, so I'll suspend for a couple of minutes while our next guest comes to the table. We'll have him for an hour.
Thank you very much. We'll suspend.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Our next witness is from Zuffa Canada Productions, Mr. Tom Wright. He is the director of UFC operations for Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
Welcome back to Canada, then, I guess. The floor is yours, sir. You have 10 minutes.
4 p.m.
Tom Wright Director of UFC Operations for Canada, Australia and New Zealand, Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC), Zuffa Canada Productions, LLC
Mr. Chair, Madam Vice-Chair, and members of the committee, I want to first and foremost thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to you this morning.
On behalf of the UFC, our athletes and mixed martial arts fans across Canada, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today about our sport.
I'd also like to thank Senator Runciman for his stewardship in bringing Bill S-209 into the Senate, and the MP from Montreal, Massimo Pacetti, for introducing the bill in the House of Commons.
As both Senator Runciman and Mr. Pacetti mentioned, several people had the opportunity to speak to the committee in the Senate, which was addressing this issue, and there have been other opportunities for people to discuss the importance of bringing clarity to the Criminal Code and changing some of the ambiguity that currently exists within it.
I think it's important for people in this committee to understand that while my business card reads “Zuffa“, and it reads that I manage the UFC here in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, I'm actually here today representing the sport of mixed martial arts. So I have a MMA hat on and I'm trying to represent our sport, which in many ways is a very young sport compared with the other sports that we typically spend a lot of time talking about, be it boxing, which goes back into the 1800s, or hockey, football, basketball, and baseball, the traditional team sports, which are well into their second century. The sport of mixed martial arts is actually not even a teenager, when one considers its roots.
While there are thousands of professional mixed martial artists competing in Canada and many more tens of thousands around the world, there are also many aspiring athletes who want to be able to compete and to demonstrate their skills and their athleticism as mixed martial artists.
Unfortunately, the situation we have at the moment is that there's a cloud of uncertainty and there is ambiguity in the way the sport is considered municipally and provincially in many jurisdictions across the country.
The initiative to have subsection 83(2) of the Criminal Code changed is intended to bring in a more consistent regulatory environment in order to bring continuity to our sport and to eliminate the ambiguity that certainly is present in the language that was written back in the 1930s.
It's important because, as Senator Runciman mentioned, the sport of mixed martial arts is the fastest growing sport in the world, and Canada has a very unique position in this sport. It's a position of leadership, not only from the sport's perspective, but also from the regulatory perspective.
When I speak about how Canada is regarded, it's interesting that we—I'm speaking now about the UFC, the company I work with—are the largest league in the world. If you think of the sport as hockey and the league as the NHL, or the sport as football and the league as the CFL, this sport is mixed martial arts, and the number one league in the world is the UFC.
This year alone we will be holding approximately 33 events around the world, and three of them will be held in Canada. Of those 33 events, 13 will be what we call pay per view—big, large, global events—and Canada will be hosting three of them. A week and a half ago we were in Montreal for UFC 158. We will be going to Winnipeg, Manitoba for the first time for UFC 161 in June, and we will be back in Toronto for UFC 165 in September.
That's three out of 13 global events, and these events are opportunities not only for our sport to be showcased but our athletes to be showcased around the world.
We compete with other cities not only here in Canada but around the world to host these events. In the past 12 or 14 months we've held events in Tokyo, Japan; Sydney, Australia; Macau; London; Rio de Janeiro; and of course we've held them across Canada in the cities I've mentioned, but also in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, and Chicago—major metropolitan areas.
It's an interesting tribute to our sport that Canada on a per capita basis is the largest consumer of mixed martial arts in the world, and we are home to some of the most famous athletes. Georges St-Pierre—we've all heard of his name—represents not only the province of Quebec but also the country of Canada so very well. He is an eight-time defending world welterweight champion. He was one of the individuals who ended up filling the Bell Centre last Saturday for UFC 158 in Montreal. Not only was Georges St-Pierre on that card, but there were a total of eight Canadians.
Our athletes come from coast to coast to coast. From Nova Scotia, T. J. Grant is one of our top 10 ranked lightweights, and he is from Cole Harbour. We could think of other athletes from Cole Harbour. I guess T. J. Grant would be number two from Cole Harbour, given that he's not quite Sidney Crosby yet. There are others from across the country.
It's important that not only have we been a leader with regard to our sport globally from a business point of view and from an acceptance point of view, but also from a regulatory point of view. At the heart of this initiative to bring clarity to the Criminal Code and eliminate the ambiguity is the goal of providing a consistent framework for regulation across the country and the necessary safety and health protection environment for all of our athletes to compete in.
I bring this up in particular because I recall a question being asked about how this impacts provinces versus municipalities. One thing that is really important to remember—and again I'll have my mixed martial arts hat on, not my UFC hat—is that the importance of having consistent regulation is to make sure that every single organization, be it a large professional organization that has offices around the world, like the UFC, or a local professional mixed martial organization that may only conduct its business in Alberta, British Columbia or Nova Scotia, be held to a specific rigour and a specific standard when it comes to the health and safety of the sport.
In the absence of regulation, in the absence of this continuity, you run into the potential issue that other organizations will not be held to that standard, and it is so very important. While the UFC may be the largest organization in the world, and while I personally would love to see us go to the territory of Yukon and take an event there, the chances are that we will not be able to take an event to the Yukon. That doesn't mean other professional mixed martial arts organizations should not be provided with that opportunity, and if they are, that organization or any other organization needs to be held to a specific and a strong, certain rigour in the regulatory standards that are in place, again to protect the health and safety of the athletes.
Senator Runciman spoke to the importance of pre- and post-fight medical testing. We also do pre- and post-fight drug testing. You want to make sure that there is a level playing field for these athletes. You want to make sure that weight classes are respected. You want to make sure that the officials are properly trained. You want to make sure that the sport is regulated, as other sports around the world and around our country are properly regulated.
In the absence of the clarity that we're seeking and that Bill S-209 provides, you run into the risk that some provinces won't sanction it and that some provinces may adopt a different perspective. It's the consistency that's so very important to allowing a sport such as ours to continue to grow and allow our country to continue to have the leadership position that it has.
I can tell you that now that I and our company and my team in Toronto are responsible for the UFC's operations in Australia and New Zealand, when I go into those countries, not only do I represent our sport, but they are anxious to understand what the regulatory environment is like in Canada.
Again, we provide a level of leadership when it comes to taking our sport forward and making sure it is provided with the foundation and the consistent regulatory environment to allow the sport to continue to grow safely, in a healthy manner, and in such a way as to make sure that the athletes' health and safety is protected at all times.
With that, Mr. Chair, I'm happy to take any and all questions.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Thank you, Mr. Wright, for that opening statement.
Our first questioner is Madame Boivin from the New Democratic Party.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Wright, for being with us today.
I gather that holding these events has always been a bit risky. Everyone was aware of the consequences, criminally speaking. I imagine, however, that there was some kind of informal arrangement whereby criminal action wasn't taken.
Every event you organized was a violation of section 83 of the Criminal Code, which would have made me quite nervous.
How have you managed to deal with all that?
