Evidence of meeting #9 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-10.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
In one of your reports, you also state that publishing the names of young offenders gives them hero status in there own group. Mr. Wamback mentioned earlier that when they return to school they brag about their exploits as if it were something to be proud of.
Could you comment on that also?
Chair, Board of Directors, Canadian Coalition for the Rights of Children
That is correct. The Convention on the Rights of the Child for good reason argues for protecting their privacy. It is because what we want is for them to learn to be responsible adults. Publication of their names often results in them joining a community that leads them into greater crime. That's where they find acceptance.
So there's good reason for protecting privacy with the view of rehabilitation, giving them an opportunity to become responsible adults, not to become proud of their criminal activity.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Pousoulidis, thank you for coming. I always find it difficult to ask questions of people who have suffered such terrible traumas in their life, but I do want to touch on a couple of things that you mentioned.
In your opening statement, you talked about polling that says there is 77% support for Bill C-10 in Quebec. You have extensive contact with people in Quebec through your organization and others, so I wonder if you could comment on whether or not that sits with what you hear from talking to your members and the communities at large.
President, Association of Families of Persons Assassinated or Disappeared
Thank you very much for asking that question.
Obviously my members will support it. My members have the experience. My members understand that worrying too much about criminals' rights, not to offend them and to make sure they're all good and fine.... At the end, they killed their child.
I would love to say that I've talked to all my members, but we all know that I represent the murdered, the criminal disappearances. Yes, my members approve it. Yes, they congratulate it. Yes, we had a lot of phone calls after we sent our press release that they're very happy. And yes, one member, whose name is Madame Lacasse, fought very hard for one of the laws in Bill C-10.
Outside of that, since we are known pretty much in Quebec as an association, sometimes people mix us up with 911. We get a lot of calls from other people asking for help, and we talk them through it. We get a lot of phone calls from mothers, especially, who want our advice on justice and how they can help their children who are in crime.
They know their child is in crime. They know what they're doing. But every time their child goes to jail, they take them right out. One of the most difficult parts of being a parent, from what they tell us, is that it's they who have to do it, they who have to pick up the phone and say, “My son is....”
It's really hard for a parent to do it. A lot of them don't do it themselves.
So apart from my members, who fully support it, and Madame Lacasse, who spearheaded one of the laws there, other people we've spoken to support it as well.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
So you're talking about parents who will call you when their children are, I take it, committing crimes and they don't know what to do with them.
I take it that you think there are certain aspects of Bill C-10 that will help parents with their children in terms of the severity of the crimes the children are committing and the consequences.
President, Association of Families of Persons Assassinated or Disappeared
The tougher sentences will help with that. To put them in and take them out is not helping society. It's not helping the kids. They come out, and, as Mr. Wamback said, a lot of them think it's pretty cool.
I was in court to see my brother's murderer. His friends, who were little gang members--I couldn't believe it, they were 13-year-old and 14-year-old kids--were walking into court and giving a sort of salute to the accused murderer. Some of them, because the court was sealed, came with drugs--in court--and they knew they were going to....
I'd love to say that society is all great, that we haven't lost something somewhere, but we have. It is proven. If we open our eyes, we see it. It's time to take care of it.
I hear it. I hear that we need to rehabilitate and all these things. I hear it. Until we do it, though, why risk human lives? Until you figure it out, until you get better programs in jail, until jail becomes better for rehabilitation, why are we risking human lives?
That part I'm still struggling with.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
I want to talk about one other issue, which is parole board hearings. I know that's an issue that's important to you as well.
Why is sharing information related to parole board hearings so important to your members?
President, Association of Families of Persons Assassinated or Disappeared
It's because I have a right to that information; because I pay for that information as a taxpayer; because I want to know where he is, if he's out; because I don't want to be surprised one day when I go to a restaurant and he's sitting next to me.
Psychologically it's going to affect me, so I want to know. I want to make sure my voice is heard when it's time for him to get out, that's all. I have the right to that.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
Are there any other specific measures in Bill C-10 that you want to specifically mention that your organization is very supportive of?
President, Association of Families of Persons Assassinated or Disappeared
We support anything that touches the victims. We like the no more home sentence, no more serving your sentence at home.
We like the parole information. That one we really, really support. We fought hard to have that. There is nothing more frustrating than going to get information and nothing is available for you. There is nothing more frustrating than knowing that your child, your loved one, your family member doesn't exist because he's dead; you feel like a statistic.
So we support those two, and also that it's tougher on youth.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie
Thank you.
That ends the session. Unfortunately, time runs out very quickly.
I want to thank the panel for being here today. It's all part of this process in which everybody learns something, and we certainly learned from this panel. Thank you very much.
If the committee will hold on for just a minute, we have a small piece of committee business to deal with.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie
Could I get the committee to come back for a minute? You can carry on the conversations afterwards. We won't be very long.
The clerk has distributed a budget for these hearings. With the clerk, I need to present it on Thursday at the liaison committee meeting, which will deal with it.
If you've had a chance to look at it, I would ask that somebody make a motion that we accept it. Then I'll present it.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Someone had a very interesting question: how come it costs $3,200 to get someone from Saskatoon and only $1,600 for someone from Vancouver?
Conservative
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
There's only one person. It refers to only one person from Saskatoon, so it can't be an average.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dave MacKenzie
Look at the other column, Mr. Harris. I think you're looking at just one column. You have to go to the second column. It's per person. The second column is the total.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Yes, that's right. In the second column the subtotal is $3,200. The unit price is $3,200, and there's one person involved, so it's $3,200.
I'm not sure which column you mean.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative Delta—Richmond East, BC
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, we've already had a mover and a seconder, and we've voted. We don't have discussion after a motion has been passed.
