Justice Committee on March 4th, 2014

[Rénald Rémillard]

In some provinces, working groups or joint groups have links or discussions with the Minister of Justice. Discussions don't necessarily deal with implementing part XVII, strictly speaking, but issues of access to justice in which part XVII is raised in one way or another. These discussions are held in an official context and often follow various established mechanisms. On the other hand, information is also largely shared in a less official fashion. For example, practitioners can identify difficulties or improvements to be made.

Each province is unique when it comes to interacting with legal experts' associations in the province or with people who work in the field. The situation varies according to the province's reality.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you for those questions and answers.

Our final questioner today is Mr. Jacob.

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

You weren't on the list, my friend. I'm sorry. I'll put you on the list after Mr. Jacob.

Mr. Jacob, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both witnesses for participating in today's meeting.

The Commissioner of Official Languages, Graham Fraser, recently completed a study on the bilingual capacity of the judiciary for superior courts. Essentially, he concluded that there were not enough bilingual judges appointed to superior courts. According to him, the main reason for this problem is the judges' appointment process, which "does not allow for a sufficient number of judges with the language skills needed to hear citizens in the minority official language."

Could you tell me how the provisions for the accused's language rights can be applied when the bilingual capacity of superior court judges is lacking?

My question is for both witnesses.

[Allan Damer]

Obviously, there is work to be done. In some regions of Canada, there are perhaps fewer judges appointed to superior courts who are bilingual or who have bilingual capacity.

The Centre canadien de français juridique intends to better train provincial court judges. That is one of the aspects of the problem which we are attempting to resolve. As we train these judges, a wider pool of possible appointments is created. As Mr. Rémillard mentioned earlier, many students, even anglophones, who start to receive their training in French are able to study the law, become lawyers, or even judges.

When it comes to resolving this problem immediately, our lawyer colleagues must have a bilingual capacity to be eligible for an appointment. The official languages commissioner indicated that in the appointment criteria [technical difficulties].

[Rénald Rémillard]

[Technical difficulties] part XVII, the bilingual capacity of provincial courts is probably the most important element. This does not mean that the bilingual capacity of higher courts is not important, but training judges from the provincial courts is probably the most important aspect in terms of part XVII of the Criminal Code.

I would like to highlight how important training is. Bilingual capacity could in part be improved through training, in addition to having an increasingly larger pool of candidates to the legal profession, which can serve as a sort of incubator for the judiciary.

With regard to part XVII of the Criminal Code and the language rights it covers, I think training for provincial court judges is probably the most significant factor. However, training for superior court judges is also important. These judges also need to have bilingual capacity because they also have to hear cases.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

In what ways does the lack of bilingual superior court judges compromise the linguistic rights of accused persons?

My question is for both witnesses.

[Allan Damer]

The problem obviously stems from the fact that, practically speaking, the accused have to base their choice on whether to have their trial in English or in French on the capacity of the legal system before which they are to appear. If they choose to have their trial in French, their trial will have to be postponed, which is unacceptable to them. In order to go to trial earlier, the accused may have to choose to proceed in English rather than in French. The lack of bilingual judges could lead to this type of problem.

I do not know whether Mr. Rémillard will want to add anything to that.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Could you give me more details about the kinds of delays accused persons face when they ask for a trial in French?

[Allan Damer]

Let us say that, in a given region, there are no francophone judges available. What can you do in that case? Some people will decide to proceed in English.

In my criminal law practice, I had an accused ask me whether the judge would treat him more harshly if he asked for his trial to be held in French. We obviously want to avoid this perception.

The issue of delays is extremely important, even in criminal cases. For accused persons in jail waiting for their trial, it is unpleasant to have to wait a number of months before their cases are heard.

There are other problematic situations. For example, I heard some of my colleagues from southern Manitoba say that some counsels knew that a certain francophone judge was stricter towards the accused. They would therefore specifically ask for the trial to be conducted in the other official language so as not to have their case heard by that judge.

To answer your question, I must say that there are many factors to consider. I do not know whether my colleague Mr. Rémillard will want to comment on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

No, we are done.

Thank you to our witnesses today. Your testimony has been excellent. I want to apologize for the technical difficulties we had here on the Hill today. It's an important review we are doing of part XVII of the Criminal Code. Your testimony has been very valuable to assist committee members, so thank you for that.

Before we adjourn, I want to let you know that if you have witnesses....The intention is to have another meeting on this issue when we get back from our break on the Tuesday. On Thursday of this week we have the estimates with the minister coming for the first hour and officials for the second hour. Make sure that the clerk gets any further witnesses.

We did ask, so you know, the Commissioner of Official Languages to come. He was unable to make it today. We are going to continue to pursue that individual, hopefully for that first week back. My thought is we'd have two panels, if we can, on the first Tuesday back; and then on Thursday, we may go in camera to talk about a report and give directions to the analysts, and then maybe a subcommittee on agenda to see what we're going to do for the next few weeks after that.

With that, are there any questions?

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Yes, please, I have a couple of questions.

On Thursday, we will begin our study of supplementary estimates (C). We have also received the main estimates. Could we plan to...

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

No, different meeting.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

I mean that we have to set a meeting date aside for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

You mean plan a meeting for the mains?

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Yes, I thought you were going to ask me for the mains on Thursday. If you'd like to have a meeting on the mains, which we all should have, in my view, we can plan when that will be. We know approximately the date that we need to be done by.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Excellent, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.