Justice Committee on March 6th, 2014

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Monsieur Goguen. You've been very active in your constituency, and I was appreciative of the opportunity to meet with your local members of the YWCA in Moncton. They're doing a great job raising awareness in and around the community of Moncton, New Brunswick about issues that victims are facing, issues that victims very often run up against, and about how victims can access programming to help them and help their families.

Victims Week, as you noted, will run this year from April 6 to April 12, and the theme is “taking action”, which is something I think we can all agree has to occur. Funding for National Victims of Crime Awareness Week is provided through the victims fund, which is administered by the Department of Justice. It is a $120-million fund and has been in place since 2006.

There is also money available, and I hope to get a further question on the work of the Canadian child advocacy centres. They are also funded separately and do much of the important, practical, on-the-ground work to help victims navigate the system.

So awareness is very important. YWCAs and YMCAs do a tremendous job in their communities. They are of course very closely associated with the lives of many people living in this country, and they're often there to help answer questions and help guide people through the justice system. YMCA Moncton is a great example of a proactive group with very committed professional individuals, as you know, and I was pleased to have the opportunity to meet them.

[Robert Goguen, Conservative, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you. That's all for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

From the Liberal Party we have Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, you recently introduced Bill C-26 into the House and in response to a question in question period you referenced an increase in child sexual crimes over the last two years.

Were the figures that you cited the Juristat figures for the period ended March 2012?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I'll have to get back to you. The figures I have that I believe you're referring to, Mr. Casey, show an increase of 3% over the last calendar year, which is above and beyond the 3% increase from the year before that. I'm not sure whether they came from Juristat or were generated internally by the Department of Justice. I will get you the source.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Bill C-26 increases penalties for child sexual offences and other sexual offences, and in 13 different sections these are increases over and above increases that you made in Bill C-10, I expect you're aware of that.

Given that you increased penalties in Bill C-10 and your figures indicate that child sexual offences over the last two years have increased, why are you increasing them again? It strikes me that if the goal of increasing them is to have fewer offences, your increases in Bill C-10 failed.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Surely, Mr. Casey, you've done more than just read one of the nine sections of the bill. C-26 goes well beyond just increasing sentences and, by the way, it makes them consecutive. It makes it possible for them to be served back to back for separate offences and separate victims, which is an important component of the bill. It also goes further: it now also allows a spouse to be competent and compellable, and able to testify. It delves into the area of child pornography, which in itself is exploitive of children and very harmful in communities.

Perhaps one of the more important components is a Public Safety lead, which allows for greater sharing of information on those who have been convicted of child sex offences. It allows us to ensure that some of our allies are also provided with information about convicted child sex offenders who are travelling outside Canada. Perhaps one of the more important, if not controversial, sections refers to public access to high-risk convicted sex offenders. Individuals can now find out if a pedophile is living in their neighbourhood or near their school.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Do you not agree that stats that show that child sexual offences have increased in the last two years indicate that the increases that you put in C-10 haven't worked?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I'd answer that two ways.

First, I would say that C-10 would hardly have had effect in the time period we're looking at. Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, it indicates to me that we have to do more. It indicates very clearly that we have to take more steps toward prevention, deterrence, and denunciation. I can think of nothing, and I suspect everybody around this table would agree, that is more offensive or corrosive in a young person's life than to be sexually abused; we need to condemn that in the strongest terms in our justice system and in our schools. It is abhorrent to think that a country like ours is seeing a 3% increase in child sex offences, and I intend to do anything in my power to prevent that.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Minister, several of the tough-on-crime measures brought in by your government have had a rough ride in the courts to your chagrin, at least according to your public statements. I understand that within your department there have been some investigations as to what the appropriate timing and circumstances would be in which to invoke the notwithstanding clause. Can you confirm that, and share with this committee what is being undertaken with respect to an examination of when to invoke, and the circumstances under which to invoke, the notwithstanding clause?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I'm not aware of any examination of the invoking of the notwithstanding clause.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Do you deny that there is a process within your department to examine this question?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I'm not aware of any ongoing examination of when to invoke notwithstanding. There's always examination of legislation for purposes of charter compliance. This is scuttlebutt; this is news to me.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

A private member's bill is coming before the House,C-560, dealing with the Divorce Act. Back in 2009, your predecessor, Mr. Nicholson, indicated that the best interests of the child are always paramount. Given that this question is about to come before the House, what are your views on that, sir?

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

If you're comfortable answering the question, I'll allow it. You did open the door with your opening speech on other legislation, but you didn't mention this particular one.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

This particular private member's bill will receive, I'm sure, the rigorous examination that all private members' bills receive. I am familiar with the one you're referencing. I can tell you, having practised some family law—as you have in Prince Edward Island—that the long-held legal maxim and the jurisprudence definitely supports that the best interests of the child will remain the primary concern. I see no change in that regard.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

The bill proposes to weaken that in favour of parental rights. Do you realize that?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, I do realize that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

You have one more minute, sir.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

In your opening statement, you talked about NCR. Recently, three of your cabinet colleagues were vocal in their criticism of the Manitoba Criminal Code Review Board and publicly discussed a specific case before the board. I compliment you, Minister, in that you didn't. Could I have your views on the appropriateness of that?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

It was, as you've indicated, a provincial review of a very high-profile case. Let's not beat around the bush: we're talking about the case of Vincent Li, who murdered Tim McLean in the most horrifying manner imaginable.

The exchange you're referring to, which took place primarily involving a member of Parliament from Manitoba, the province where this occurred, is I think a reflection very much of the way that many in the community felt upon hearing the news that this individual, some six years after having committed that horrific act, was going to be released without conditions into the community. I think it was a natural reaction and that this person was very much speaking out on behalf of what they were hearing from their own constituents.

But as you've noted, as Attorney General and as Minister of Justice I did not delve into the details of what could still find its way back before the courts in some fashion.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you for those questions.

Our next questioner, from the Conservative Party, is Mr. Dechert.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you mentioned in your opening statement today that Canadians need to feel that the justice system is working for them and need to feel safe in their communities. You've also referenced several justice initiatives, including the cyberbullying bill, Bill C-13, and the tougher penalities for child predators act, BillC-26.

Can you tell us a little bit more about those particular measures and how you feel they will help to build confidence in the Canadian justice system?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

This bill, as I was just discussing with Mr. Casey, is very much aimed in its intent and purpose at protecting children, at being more proactive or forward-leaning, if you will, in certain measures that we hope will empower police but also send a very strong message that this type of aberrant behaviour will not be tolerated and will be prosecuted to the full extent, requiring that those convicted of certain sexual offences against children will now receive stronger sentences. Subject to minimums and maximums, penalities can be served consecutively, back to back. There is also an increase in the penalty provisions as they pertain to violations of certain supervision conditions, either parole or court-ordered prohibitions.

For example, those very prohibitions that are intended to protect the child from having contact with a sex offender, the abuser—frequenting a place where children are often found, such as a school yard or swimming pool, and violating those sections that are designed to protect and envelop a child in a protective environment.... If those are violated, there are stronger penalities to attach.

I mentioned removing the prohibition upon a spouse's testifying on certain charges, such as child sex offences and child pornography, making spouses competent and compellable before the courts. House arrest, parole, statutory release, unescorted temporary absence provisions again—all of those are now viewed as...an aggravating circumstance under this legislation.

I believe as well that our moral and legal obligations to share certain information, whether with other agencies such as Border Services or with our allies outside of Canada, about the travelling of Canadian convicted sex offenders...are also something for which this bill will provide greater safety. Finally, establishing a publicly accessible database that will disclose the names of high-risk sex offenders is, I believe, an important tool not only for the police, but for the public to protect their loved ones.