Justice Committee on June 5th, 2014

[Monika Bickert]

Thank you.

We are very much a global company and we have a set of policies that actually apply to people who are using Facebook, wherever they are around the globe. We certainly comply with all laws that apply to us, but because we're such a global platform, we really take a broad approach to thinking about these issues.

In my testimony, I outlined some of the ways we think about this. In terms of protecting people, we want to take a clear stance in our policies. We want to make it very easy for people to report things, and I hope that the process was easy for you when you had a problem on Facebook. I can tell you that if any content is bullying or harassing and it is reported to us, we respond quickly and take that content down.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Did you hear the testimony of Mr. Canning, the father of Rehtaeh Parsons, one of the kids who, sadly, committed suicide? He said that it was difficult, and he was told that it was not breaching the community rules of Facebook. There were certain images in which you saw the kid being.... She's dead.

She had hanged herself. I do not know how to say that in English.

She hanged herself, or something like that. There were pretty horrible images. So when I hear somebody answering from your group that it was not against the community rules of Facebook, how do you respond to that?

[Monika Bickert]

I can't of course speak about a specific case, but that type of content, in which somebody is mocking a suicide, definitely violates our standards and would definitely be removed. It's definitely a priority to us, to the point that we prioritize any report about bullying or harassment so that it will be responded to very quickly across the globe.

To your other point, I don't know if it's more appropriate—

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

I'm going to ask him to answer.

Mr. Beckerman, the floors if yours now.

[Michael Beckerman]

Thank you. Sorry, there was a little bit of a delay before.

To the point on our companies being responsive to Canadian citizens or being based in the United States, our companies are all global, and they see themselves as representing the communities and the users they serve, both in Canada and around the world.

On these particular issues there have been a number of very sad and horrific cases, and our companies take that very seriously, and they place a very strong priority on protecting the safety and security of users both in Canada and around the world.

I think you should look at our industry as a whole and particularly our member companies, who are all good actors in the space and are working with authorities in Canada and working with teachers' groups and educating students in Canada, that we should be part of the solution and not to view us as a part of the problem.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Have you been approached by some police force to divulge some information? Perhaps one of your companies, maybe Facebook, was? Have you been approached in certain cases in Canada to make information available to the authorities? And if so, have you told the people their information was under review?

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

We'll start with Mr. Beckerman on the police requests, and then we'll finish with you from Facebook. Thank you very much.

[Michael Beckerman]

I can't get into specific examples from specific companies and individual cases, but I can say that our companies all work with local communities and local law enforcement under the law. In particular, they put a lot of time and resources and effort into cases where people's security or lives are at risk. This is a very important part for our companies.

Platforms are only as good as people allow them to be and having security online, so it's really important we do work with law enforcement on these cases.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

I'm going to let Ms. Bickert answer.

[Monika Bickert]

Any time we receive a request for data from any government, we have a process for scrutinizing it in accordance with our terms and applicable laws, and we will provide data when required to do so by law.

We believe very much in being transparent with the people who use Facebook about how their data's being protected, and when it might be provided to law enforcement. For that reason it's laid out very clearly in our terms in something called our data use policy how we might respond and how we scrutinize law enforcement requests. We've also gone a step further, in that we've provided information publicly in a series of government request reports where we tell people that these are the requests we're getting from around the world, and here's how we're responding.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

And on the immunity clause, how important is it for your companies, and what type of immunity clause are you looking forward to?

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

It's the last question.

Ms. Bickert.

[Monika Bickert]

We set forth very clearly in our data use policy the circumstances under which we might provide information to a government. Typically that is in a situation where we would receive a government request, and we would apply very strict scrutiny to that request to ensure that it's not overly broad and to ensure that it is compliant with the law.

In rare cases we make clear in our terms, because we care so much about protecting people, that if we believe somebody's life is in danger or in physical harm, then we will provide information to law enforcement authorities as necessary to protect people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Mr. Beckerman, do you want to respond to that?

[Michael Beckerman]

I agree with those comments. On the transparency standpoint, our companies all pride themselves in putting out these transparency reports. It's important for people to understand the type of information that is being collected by governments in a way that is responsive to their needs and privacy concerns.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you for those questions and those answers.

Our next questioner is Mr. Dechert from the Conservative Party.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to each of our guests for joining us today.

Mr. Kempton, I want to join Madame Boivin and express my condolences and sympathies to you and your family for the terrible things that happened to your granddaughter.

I can assure you that your presence here today and all the work you've done previously, including the many public speaking engagements that I know you've done, and the scholarship you talked about will help make a difference for young people. We agree with you that education is the primary important thing to do here.

We're looking at a bill that will put in place some criminal provisions to go after the most egregious examples of cyberbullying and to give law enforcement the tools they need to investigate those. But the most important thing is to give all people the understanding of the power and the speed of the Internet and social media so they can take steps to protect themselves and stop these things from happening in the first place.

So I appreciate your being here, and I appreciate your comments.

Mr. Wamback, it's good to see you again. I know you have appeared before the committee many times, and you're becoming quite an expert in criminal law. I appreciate that.

I was struck by something you said, and it was similar to something we heard from Glen Canning, Rehtaeh Parsons' father. You said anonymity does not exist on the Internet.

Can you explain a little more what you mean by that?

[Joseph Wamback]

In my experience, not only personally but also with other Canadians, when they are intimidated and bullied, and their lives threatened and false rumours being spread throughout the various media, not just social media, but various individual blogs and e-mail, this is being done and facilitated because of the anonymity that currently exists. Anybody can log on to any of the social media sites using any name they want and any set of credentials they want to create an identity and continue to work through that identity.

The only thing that is available for the police or for the authorities to identify that individual is the URL, the location and the identity of the computer.

That currently is difficult, if not impossible. I have tried for five years to track down the individuals who have been defaming my family and made death threats against us, and I was told every time that it was to no avail, that it was impossible, that they could not do it.

My hopes with this legislation, given that same set of circumstances, is that we would be able to make accountable those individuals who are utilizing that media to intimidate and threaten, and that there could be consequences for it.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I think Mr. Canning made the point that when people join sites like Facebook or other social media sites, they provide a whole lot of their own personal information to those sites. Sometimes those different organizations do different things. Sometimes they use it for advertising purposes, as with Google and other systems, but the only people who don't have that information are the authorities who are trying to investigate a potential crime.

Ms. Bickert, you told me that people have to use their real name on Facebook and that you take some steps to verify that they are using their real name and who they are. Can you tell us a little more about that?

[Monika Bickert]

Absolutely.

We have a policy on Facebook that requires people to use their real identity. And we believe this helps people connect with one another because it goes to the heart of who you are. I can also say that we see that it brings about greater accountability.

We've tried to state very clearly in our policies that this is required—so the expectation is out there—and then provide ways for our community to report to us if they see that something is not right and that maybe somebody is not using his or her real name. When we see those circumstances, we will investigate that profile to ensure that the person is representing himself, and if not, we would remove that profile.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you for that.

I want to point out that Facebook is doing a very good job with these resolution tools and other tools to prevent bullying from happening on Facebook, and taking down questionable content in a proactive way. I think it's showing good corporate citizenship in doing so. I very much appreciate that.

[Monika Bickert]

Thank you.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Wamback, you mentioned the Youth Criminal Justice Act, and I want to assure you that nothing in Bill C-13 detracts in any way from the application of the Youth Criminal Justice Act.

[Joseph Wamback]

Thank you.

My concern was that there was no cross-reference to it—and my point was strictly a housekeeping one, as I'm a bit of a fanatic with respect to that—and I wanted to make sure that those provisions would apply equally across all the other sections within the Criminal Code.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

We believe that they do, but we can certainly take a look at that.