Evidence of meeting #36 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prostitution.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Thank you for those questions and answers.
Our next questioner, from the Liberal Party, is Mr. Casey.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to pick up right where Ms. Smith left off. Do you see in this legislation particular attention paid to the uniquely vulnerable situation that first nations find themselves in?
2:15 p.m.
In-House Legal Counsel, Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
I wouldn't say there's particular attention. If you search the act, you're not even seeing the word “aboriginal”. So yes, that is obviously a concern for us.
As Michèle said, it's not a perfect bill, but we have to start with something. We can't risk the advances that we could make in criminalizing pimps, johns, and traffickers in this legislation.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
In terms of the measures that you would recommend to achieve those goals or to progress towards those goals, can you identify them in terms of what else you would like to see in the bill to address those specific concerns? Or am I to understand that, to work towards where we need to be, these aren't necessarily legislative matters but budgetary?
2:15 p.m.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I think it is important that you give us an opportunity to express our opinion.
We have to do a lot of prevention. As you know, prostitution is a product of a colonial system. The same goes for murdered and missing women, and the high rate of violence.
To be proactive through this bill or through administrative measures, the government should make sure that the Native Women's Association of Canada and the Pauktuutit Inuit Women's Association can have this dialogue with various departments. That needs to be legally entrenched. If you manage to pull off this magic trick, it would be a giant step forward. Departments should be forced to implement concrete measures, so that we do not have to come back here to complain all the time.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
That is not in the bill. You have still not heard about this intention, right?
2:15 p.m.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
That is a question you should put to your colleagues.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
The Chiefs of Ontario raised the issue of the United Nations charter and duty on the part of the government to consult where first nations communities are so uniquely vulnerable. Do you share their view, or would you care to comment on it?
2:15 p.m.
In-House Legal Counsel, Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
We would encourage the implementation of the UN declaration in its entirety, which also asks for women's right to live free from violence and to have economic security. You can't just hive off the duty to consult alone. Of course that's always necessary when you have any legislation that affects aboriginal peoples in such a way, but as we mentioned and as we framed our entire argument, we would like to see the UN declaration and all its articles implemented.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Do the legislative measures taken in Bill C-36 respect the declaration?
2:15 p.m.
In-House Legal Counsel, Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
Well, in a sense, there's no reference to it, if that's what you mean. There's no specific reference to it, no.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
2:15 p.m.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
What can I say, aboriginals are visual people. So I will translate orally.
To answer your question, I would say that the bill does not specifically refer to aboriginals. You and your colleagues from the Conservative government still have the power to make sure that it does. Otherwise,
we will hunt you, and remind you that we're so alive.
2:15 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
2:15 p.m.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I think we have a great opportunity here. Yes, Canadian women are facing this and making great presentations to the committee. Yes, in Canada aboriginal women are so alive, so proud, but so resilient, that now you have the chance to make sure that real action will also specifically be toward aboriginal women. It's not that I want to take something away from my sisters, but you know that there is a big, big gap.
You know that the UNDRIP is there. You can use some of it, or all of it—why not? But make sure that the dialogue is with Pauktuutit, NWAC, and at the grassroots level. Make sure that with what you're doing today, in 10 or 20 years, my daughters won't open an newspaper and say, “Well, mom, I want to work in the sex trade”. No, it will be, “Mom, I want to be a pilot. Mom, I want to be a doctor or a teacher or an MP.”
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Finally I'd be interested in your opinion on the intersection of Bill C-36 with the Gladue principles of the Supreme Court of Canada, in 1999.
Do you have an opinion as to whether there is a relationship between the two? What comment can you offer as to whether or not Bill C-36 pays respect to what the Supreme Court of Canada had to say in Gladue?
2:20 p.m.
In-House Legal Counsel, Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
I would definitely like to see more respect paid to the Gladue principles. Obviously, the last thing we would want to see are aboriginal women, or any of the most marginalized women, impacted by criminalization. I think we've been very clear about that.
That is one area we need to see change happen, and we will continue to advocate for that change. It is our worst fear that more women, rather than the pimps and traffickers, will be charged, that it will be the most low-hanging fruit, not to ever commodify women further, but just to say that because they're already marginalized, it would be easy to arrest and criminalize them. That's the last thing we would want to see happen with this legislation.
We've told you what we do want in the legislation, and we've expressed clearly that we don't want the criminalization of women. We have enough aboriginal women who are being criminalized. Every day the numbers are increasing, as many presenters have stated. We would not want to see this as another measure to criminalize aboriginal women.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Ms. Pate, you emphatically stated the position of your organization against mandatory minimum sentences. Why?
July 8th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
Well, because there has been no evidence.... Certainly we've have had an abundance of legislation, especially recently, that has increased the numbers of mandatory minimum sentences, which disproportionately do impact women—indigenous women, those with mental health issues—and we don't want to see anything that will contribute to that.
If I could also pick up on your last two questions to our sisters at the Native Women's Association, I think one of the things that could be added to the bill, the preamble in particular, would be to pick up on the recommendation of both Teresa Edwards and Michèle Audette. It would be specific reference to the importance of recognizing and promoting the provisions of the UN declaration on indigenous peoples, as well as the section 15 equality issues, and the need to link this issue of the increased risk of women being in prostitution to economic, social, cultural, equality, and security of the person rights. I think those would be ways to strengthen it.
Lest I wasn't clear at all before, we don't have faith that the provisions, even with those things added, will alone solve this issue. The notion of decriminalizing women is fundamental, but without all of those other facets, we are not likely to see significant positive change for women in this country.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Thanks for those questions and answers.
Our next questioner, from the Conservative Party, is Ms. Ambler.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. We really appreciate your input.
For the record, Madam Audette, my mother wasn't thrilled when I told her I wanted to be a member of Parliament.
2:20 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Just following up on some testimony that we heard yesterday, there was a woman who here who questioned the committee's commitment to getting the aboriginal viewpoint on the record, in particular that of aboriginal women involved in prostitution. I wanted to give our clerk and this committee, of which I'm not a regular member, some credit on this. I wanted to make sure that I have it right. I believe that by inviting the Native Women's Association of Canada we have really the ultimate and best representatives of women who are prostitutes and who are aboriginal as well.
Would you say that you are here representing and being their voice?
2:25 p.m.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I'll try in English. I have always said since day one when I was elected the president of NWAC that I am not the national voice, but I'm the tool. I'm the person who walks beside and with the women. I don't know everybody. Not everybody knows me, so it's tough to say that I represent all of NWAC, as president. Those are my values, and I have big ears, a big heart, and yes, I listen a lot, and we make sure that we have a strong network across Canada, as I mentioned at the beginning, with the provincial and territorial members' associations. We make sure that we connect with them.