Justice Committee on Nov. 4th, 2014

[Sue O'Sullivan]

I think she raises such an important point. Our office is contacted by people who lose loved ones overseas, be it through homicide or...and obviously, in her case, homicide as well. In terms of what she's looking for, her husband was killed in a different country, and she and other families who lose loved ones who are victims of crime in other countries still need the supports back here in Canada.

I realize it's a provincial matter, the actual direct support and victim support, and again, I can't speak on behalf of the provinces, but I understand that there have been discussions on “reciprocity”, I'll say. Even victims in our own country with loved ones who are victims of crime in another province face those same issues of not being able to access that.

The best example I can give you is this. Some of you are probably familiar with the fact that the European Union is basically in the process of implementing the EU directives that are, for want of a better word, a “victims” bill of rights in relation to service rights for the 28 countries. In that, they say that any member of the EU who is a victim of crime in any country will have a right to access those services back in their own country. I think there would be an expectation from Canadians that no matter where the offence happens, we would make sure that there are supports and services available to victims of crime in our country when a loved one is lost or is a victim of crime.

So I think she is raising a discussion that must be had. I can't speak to the provinces—they provide the direct services—but it also occurs within our country. We've heard from victims whose loved ones were murdered in other provinces that they can't access the financial supports they need, or else the counselling is unavailable to them.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Within the office of the ombudsman, I know that you do have some resources. It's not exclusively Sue O'Sullivan. Has your department done any estimate of the cost of implementing the victims bill of rights and where it comes from, federal versus provincial?

Secondly, you've suggested several enhancements. Have you also costed them?

[Sue O'Sullivan]

To answer your first question, my simple answer is no. Obviously that would be a huge undertaking.

What I can say is that we've looked at other countries who face similar challenges around implementation. Again, I'm trying to bring that different lens. Obviously, if you look at the EU directives, they provided a length of time to implement and they also provided funding. They made funding available to those countries that had to implement. To give you an analogy, if you will, in Canada, we have some provinces that have very robust victims services. We've also heard examples of where there are very few services available to victims.

So they made moneys available to assist in the implementation of this. I've heard from the government that there will be moneys available for implementation. Obviously, as the victims ombudsman, I would say that has to exist. If we're going to ask people to provide these services, to implement the bill, then we're going to have to ensure that there are resources in place to do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Mr. Casey, that's your time. Thank you very much for this question.

As we have two minutes left, Mr. Dechert, I'll give you time for one question.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to our guests. I'll be quick.

Ms. O'Sullivan, as I understand it, you have suggested that a new independent body be created to investigate complaints from victims that their rights may not have been honoured under the victims bill of rights.

First of all, do you have a sense of what that would cost and how many people would be involved? I assume you're not suggesting that your office would do that, but a new body.... Wouldn't that also require each of the organizations that would possibly be subject to investigation to have a complaints department person: the police services in various communities across Canada, the crown prosecutor's office, the Department of Justice Canada, and various provincial court organizations? They would have to have a complaint organization to liaise with the new investigative body that you're suggesting. Can you take us through your vision?

[Sue O'Sullivan]

Yes, just to clarify, we're not necessarily suggesting a new investigative body; what we're saying is whichever, because as you're well aware, there's the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, a federal agency that has oversight responsibilities and the ability to look into this.... There's the Human Rights Tribunal. There's our office. Our comments and our recommendations are that whatever an entity is doing that, it should have the ability or, if I could say, the authority to compel.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Okay, so you're not suggesting the creation of a new independent body. I thought maybe you were.

[Sue O'Sullivan]

No. I apologize.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Okay.

A number of our friends in the opposition have said as recently as our last meeting that the victims bill of rights, in their opinion, would not change anything for victims of crime. Do you agree with that statement?

[Sue O'Sullivan]

No, I do not.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Kennedy, what do you say?

[Sheldon Kennedy]

I do not agree with that.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Can you briefly discuss how you think it would help?

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you very much for those questions and answers.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair, if I can quickly....

I didn't get an opportunity to have an intervention today, but I just want to set the record straight for my fellow Albertan. Back in Alberta, we pronounce his name Jonathan “Denis”—

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Oh, not “Dennis”?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

It's just a point of clarification I wanted to make.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

and Jonathan—

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you very much, Minister “Dennis”, or Denis, if your family would like to hear that.

Thank you everyone for coming today. Thank you for your presentations. We will continue to hold discussions on this for the next three meetings, and then we'll be dealing with clause by clause in a couple of weeks after the break week.

Just before we go, members, I think we should all remember Cecilia Shea and wish her well. Cecilia is one of our interpreters, and thank God she's leaving today, because otherwise we'd have to suspend so that she could have her baby, as she is only a few days away from giving birth. Good luck with that.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

With that, thanks very much, and we'll see you on Thursday.

The meeting is adjourned.