Justice Committee on May 13th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

I have it someplace.

[Marie-Josée Thivierge]

—that at the appropriate time we would be moving forward through the supplementary estimates process to secure the funding for the department.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

I appreciate that.

Just so I have a clear understanding, I had to underline here the net vote revenue and I would ask, does it net to zero? Are you recovering all the money? Does your invoice cover all your costs?

[Pierre Legault]

The invoice plus the A-base will cover the cost of our salaries, and operating costs, and so on and so forth, yes. We don't always use...for example, in the $296 million we may underuse it, depending on the demand from the client. That's what we're authorized to charge other departments, but we may not actually invoice those departments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

The minister—rightly so—compared the main estimates of this year to the main estimates of last year and noted that there's an increase. The actual expenditure is higher because of pay list and a number of other things that come into being. I don't think we had supplementary estimates (C) at this committee, but in the estimates to date that we see in the actual piece of 2014-15 it's an 8.2% increase. It's not huge, less than 10% for the year. If we had supplementary estimates (C) would they be reflected in that or is that too late for supplementary estimates (C) to be captured?

[Marie-Josée Thivierge]

To give an answer precisely on this, the number between the main estimates 2014-15, which was $630.6 million, and the estimates to date for 2014-15, which is $682 million.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Yes.

[Marie-Josée Thivierge]

The difference, actually, captures the supplementary estimates (B), and the supplementary estimates (B) only.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Okay.

[Marie-Josée Thivierge]

For the year 2014-15, the delta is essentially supplementary estimates that received royal assent in December 2014 for the supporting families experiencing separation and divorce initiative, the delivery of immigration and refugee legal aid, the aboriginal justice strategy, and comprehensive claims and self- government negotiations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Then on the grants and contributions piece I have two questions and a comment.

The first question is that the movement from the youth justice fund in grants went significantly down but the contributions, under “Contributions in support of the Youth Justice Fund”, went significantly up. I'm assuming that's just money being transferred from grants to contributions.

Am I not correct?

[Marie-Josée Thivierge]

That's correct. That's a conversion that took place between grants and contributions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

What is the difference between a grant and a contribution?

[Marie-Josée Thivierge]

Pierre, do you want me to do that or...?

[Pierre Legault]

A contribution has more conditions attached to it than a grant. As the recipients are more stable, there's a track record. We decided that it was important to reduce the administrative burden on some of those organizations by moving to a grant, so fewer conditions are attached.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

On contributions are there more conditions?

[Pierre Legault]

Yes.

[Marie-Josée Thivierge]

Alternatively, if you move to a contribution it might also be because the demand on the contribution side of the program was greater than on the grant side and over a certain period of time you make the conversion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Because both existed simultaneously anyway, right?

My second question is this. When I see a program like the supporting families fund, which we funded it in 2013-14, for which there was nothing in the main estimates for 2014-15, and which then appears again in these main estimates, is that because it's a two-year program and the money was allocated...? I don't understand why there was nothing last year and it's the same money that there was two years ago. It happens in a couple of spots. I just need to understand why that is.

[Donald Piragoff]

It was the family initiatives. It's the first one, I believe.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

I am looking under “Contributions”. It's the third item, I think, “Contributions in support of the Supporting Families Fund”.

[Donald Piragoff]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

It was funded almost $16 million in 2013-14, nothing in the mains in 2014-15, and then it shows up again in the mains this year.

[Donald Piragoff]

There are two parts to the family funding that is provided by Parliament. One is a program of grants and contributions, which is roughly $16 million; $15.5 million goes to the provinces, and $0.5 million goes to non-government organizations. There is roughly another $6.8 million that goes to the department for operating expenses, policy work, and things like operating garnishment of EI benefits and other government benefits to support family maintenance orders, for example.

The grants and contributions were renewed for three years. The operating expenses were renewed for only two years, pending an evaluation. The evaluation happened in 2011, and because the evaluation was very good, we expect that in the next sups for next year, there will be a process to renew.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

I have one more very quick question. Maybe I am completely misreading the English or don't understand. Under “Contributions”, it says “Contributions from the Victims Fund”. Shouldn't it be contributions “to” the victims fund?