Evidence of meeting #107 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inquiries.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you, Chair, very much. Thank you to all the witnesses appearing today.
Dr. Silver, you have presented a great brief. Thank you for getting it to us early. I appreciate it.
You live in Alberta.
5:35 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Calgary, As an Individual
I do.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
You understand that a large concentration of indigenous people live in the province—
5:35 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Yes.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
—and they are overrepresented in the criminal justice system.
5:35 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Yes.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Also, there is the case for LGBTQ2S people and the case for racialized people, particularly the black community.
5:35 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Yes.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
I was struck on page 6 of your submission—your recommendations, which I'm going to get to in a minute—but you said in the last paragraph:
Efficiency is not what we want from our justice system. That is not what the Jordan and Cody decisions are all about. Cultural change involves a bundle of values, not a bundle of paper being efficiently pushed about. The goal should be to enhance the criminal justice system while preserving the protections of those whose liberty is at risk.
As one of the non-lawyers at the table, I'm struck by that philosophical but practical recommendation to remind us what the system is for.
How does your second recommendation play out? It reads:
For those cases where committal is not in issue, to utilize a modified civil form of discovery procedures, which would permit questioning to occur outside of the court process in a less costly and more efficient atmosphere.
Would that be a less effective way to conduct a preliminary inquiry, without the weight of the justice system to compel people to really be truthful, as we heard from Richard Fowler earlier?
5:35 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Calgary, As an Individual
I do appreciate what he had to say about that, but this is done under oath. It's not as if an oath is not there. In fact, it could be an atmosphere that would be more open for people who are unrepresented or for people from the indigenous communities, who feel oppressed by a courtroom.
As I said, it's a matter of balancing, but I believe that it's being used. It's been used successfully in the civil courts and it can still be used successfully in the criminal justice system as well. It requires a culture change. That's all. It requires us to think a little differently.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you.
What steps would you take to make sure that we have a more representative jury pool?
5:35 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Calgary, As an Individual
At least when I think about the situation that has been going on in two cases that we have had in Canada, I believe that the Crown can make a motion before the judge and that the judge could be responding to the fact that the jury that's been chosen is not representative or that it's biased.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you.
Mr. Brown, do you have any recommendations for us for a more representative jury pool?
5:35 p.m.
Lawyer, Daniel Brown Law, As an Individual
One of the things that you touch upon is that many racialized and aboriginal people are overrepresented in the justice system, which means that they leave the justice system with criminal records in record numbers. One of the things that bars a person from sitting on a jury is a conviction for an indictable offence. It may be that the government needs to take a look at whether or not we want to exclude the types of people who are overrepresented in the justice system and keep them excluded from participating on juries and from participating in the justice system because of this perhaps out-of-date rule that exists that keeps them off the juries in the first place.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Do you like the idea of health cards being the way that we select jury pools?
5:35 p.m.
Lawyer, Daniel Brown Law, As an Individual
What I don't like is the idea that we would use property rolls as a way to select juries, because again, there is inherent bias in the way that people end up on the rolls or off the rolls. I think there has to be a better way. It seems, though, that one of the better ways to do it is to assess people by their health cards. It's certainly one of the many solutions, as well as identifying the problem that simply choosing people who are not property holders excludes a group of people from entering the pool in the first place.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you.
Deputy Chief Constable Chow, thank you to you and your colleagues for the work that you have done and continue to do with the LGBTQ community. The pride shield that lets us know when we're safe and know which businesses we can go into when we're in the city is great. Not only does your city produce great crime dramas, but you're doing great work on the ground. I appreciate that.
I want to talk about clause 236 and proposed new section 523.1 that's going to give police officers the ability to decline to charge for administrative offences. We have a lot of people who are being brought back into the court system because of failure to comply with a bail provision. They have an addiction, so they go back to the bottle, but not doing that is one of their bail conditions.
Do you think officers will decline to charge, and do we need to make sure that training is available to help police officers exercise that discretion in the field?
5:40 p.m.
Deputy Chief Constable, Vancouver Police Department, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police
I think that discretion is used day in and day out right now. I don't think we need the.... The mere fact of it being structured and formalized in a bill will only add to it. Our officers understand the cycle of breaches and returns because of failure to comply with the conditions. That exists. As I said, I can tell you that on a daily basis our officers are making that discretionary call.
There were a number of examples cited about somebody being late because the bus is late, and it means they have exceeded their curfew. I'd say by and large most officers would exercise discretion in cases like that.
There has to be latitude given to our members, however, simply because there are offenders out there who will work the system. We see that on a regular basis.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
I think the intent of having it in the code is to provide that protection but also to be explicit that we expect police officers to exercise that discretion on the ground. It's why your members are trained. We give police officers that power over us. We want them to also be able to execute it and use judgment when doing so.
5:40 p.m.
Deputy Chief Constable, Vancouver Police Department, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police
Correct.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Thanks to everyone. These were really good presentations.
I'd like to start with Professor Silver and say how much I applaud your blog. I love it. Thank you, and congratulations on winning that big award. It's excellent.
5:40 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Thanks.
