Evidence of meeting #113 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agreed.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
Not seeing any discussion on that, we'll go to a vote on CPC-8.
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 14 agreed to)
(On clause 15)
Next we move to clause 15 and CPC-9.
Mr. Cooper.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is another amendment to another clause of Bill C-75 that waters down sentences for what are presently treated as serious indictable offences. This particular section relates to providing or collecting property for certain illicit activities.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Can I ask the department for its understanding of the offence that this amendment would be amending?
4:30 p.m.
Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
I think Mr. Cooper explained it accurately in regard to the scope of the offence in terms of collecting property for certain activities, including in relation to terrorist activity. Again, the bill proposes the same types of amendments that you've already discussed in terms of hybridizing what is a straight indictable offence.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Thank you very much for that, Mr. Taylor.
I note that this is one of the offences relating to terrorism that our committee heard testimony on from a number of individuals. They talked about the way that this would impact their community.
I believe strongly that these types of offences related to terrorism are distinguishable from the other offences that have been brought forward to be hybridized, including one on advocating genocide. I believe that we should not hybridize those offences for the compelling reasons of the testimony we heard at our committee about how this is an offence against a community. I believe that the range of ways that such offences can be completed is distinguishable from the other offences that are being hybridized.
I note that in the testimony we heard, and in further research on this, very few prosecutions have been laid on terrorism-related offences. In my opinion, it would not particularly impact one way or the other the issue of delay that is the golden thread throughout this bill, and therefore, on this offence and other terrorism-related offences, as well as on the advocating genocide offence in an amendment that we'll be dealing with later, I will be voting in favour of these amendments to not de-hybridize those particular offences, for those particular reasons.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Parry Sound—Muskoka, CPC
I just want to take note of my friend's comments and thank him for heeding the witnesses that we heard on this matter and for agreeing to support a Conservative Party of Canada amendment in that regard.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
I appreciate that as well, although I do think the committee discussed this as a group before. Even though I can't vote, I as well would voice my strong support for this amendment.
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 15 as amended agreed to)
(On clause 16)
That was unanimous. Now we move to clause 16 and Mr. Clement with CPC-10.
4:35 p.m.
Parry Sound—Muskoka, CPC
Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity.
This particular provision deals with allowing summary conviction for providing and making available property or services for terrorist purposes. I would put it to you again that we heard expert and passionate testimony that this should not be a hybridized offence. The Conservative Party agrees with those who came to this committee and who stand with society against the terrorists. That is why I'm proposing this amendment.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Mr. Ehsassi, you had your hand up. Did you want to say anything?
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
No.
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 16 as amended agreed to)
(On clause 17)
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
What harmony.
We now have clause 17 and Mr. Clement with CPC-11.
4:35 p.m.
Parry Sound—Muskoka, CPC
Thank you, Chair.
Similarly, this involves a clause in our Criminal Code about using or possessing property for terrorist purposes. The Conservative Party of Canada believes very strongly that this should remain solely an indictable offence liable for imprisonment of 10 years. That is why I'm proposing this amendment.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Are there any comments? I don't see any.
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 17 as amended agreed to)
(On clause 18)
On clause 18, we have amendment X-13, which again would not be receivable because it was tied to the summary changes. It was putting an offence that previously had been a year back to a year from where it was going to go, to two years less a day, but given the way the committee has dealt with clause 319....
Is there anybody who wishes to propose X-13? I'm not seeing anybody, so X-13 is dropped. There are no amendments, then, to clause 18.
(Clause 18 agreed to)
(Clause 19 agreed to)
(On clause 20)
At clause 20, we are at CPC-12, with Mr. Clement.
Mr. Clement.
4:35 p.m.
Parry Sound—Muskoka, CPC
Thank you, Chair.
This pertains to the hybridization of the offence found in proposed subsection 83.18(1) involving individuals who knowingly participate in or contribute to, directly or indirectly, any activity of a terrorist group for the purpose of enhancing the ability of any terrorist group to facilitate or carry out a terrorist activity.
It would be indictable under the present legislation. You could be guilty of an indictable offence and liable for imprisonment of 10 years.
Clearly, we want this to remain a solely indictable offence, not a hybridized one, and that is why the Conservative Party and I move this motion.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
Are there any comments? We'll go to the vote for CPC-12.
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 20 as amended agreed to)
(On clause 21)
Now we move to clause 21 with CPC-13 and Mr. Clement.
4:40 p.m.
Parry Sound—Muskoka, CPC
Mr. Chair, this amendment is about those leaving Canada to participate in the activity of a terrorist group. As Conservatives, we would like this to remain solely an indictable offence. We think it is very injurious to the safety and the interests of Canada. That is why the Conservative Party, through me, is proposing this amendment.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Mr. Chair, it appears government members will do the right thing and support this amendment, but we've been going through Conservative amendment after Conservative amendment on very serious terrorist-related offences, and I think it underscores the haphazard way in which Bill C-75 was drafted. The fact that we are discussing this, the fact that this was in the bill, again I think just speaks to what a flawed piece of legislation Bill C-75 is.