Evidence of meeting #138 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was decision.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Drouin, I'm going to repeat a few questions in French.
First, I'd like to know whether you informed the new Attorney General of the former Attorney General's position on the remediation agreement with SNC-Lavalin and the fact that she did not want to use her power to change matters.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
I distributed the content of the subjects of the initial briefings that my team and I had given the Hon. David Lametti. Now, as regards the details of those briefings, they are not covered by the waiver of solicitor-client privilege.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
It's the normal role of a deputy minister to inform her minister on all matters so that he is up to date and to ensure a smooth transition. Without discussing any specific cases, it's your role to inform the minister properly on all issues concerning his or her department.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Thank you for your question.
Yes, it is definitely part of the role of deputy ministers to prepare and welcome new ministers and to present all essential elements to them so they can take up their duties as soon as possible.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
That includes important decisions made by their predecessors.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
In fact, the idea is to provide briefings on hot topics, the issues of the moment. That does not necessarily include a review of previous positions. It's more about the status of each of the files.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
I understand that you can't tell us whether you spoke to Mr. Lametti about the position of the former attorney general since you haven't been authorized to do so. However, it's normally part of a deputy minister's role to inform an incoming minister on all major issues concerning his or her department.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
It's important to note that, when we conduct a briefing with ministers, particularly when there has been a change of government, deputy ministers do not discuss positions adopted by the previous government except as regards public policy. That's not the practice.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
I'm not talking about a previous government, but rather of the same government. This is still the same government.
Just to change...
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
As Mr. Cooper said, as the director of public prosecutions had decided that the trial would continue, that implied that no decision had been made by the previous attorney general.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
All right.
You had two memos: the first circulated generally, and the second concerned potential consequences. Who in the Privy Council Office asked you to draft that second memo?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
I could give you that information, but the request didn't come directly to me.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I can clarify that question, if it helps.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
All right, that's perfect.
Thank you very much.
We're going to go to Mr. McKinnon.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Mr. Wernick and Ms. Drouin, thank you for being here again.
My question is for Ms. Drouin.
I want to carry on talking about the memo of September 8 that you spoke of earlier. From your testimony, I understand there was a bit of general context as well as some specific options. Can you tell us what those options were?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
As I said, there were a couple of options.
The first thing the memo said was that an AG is entitled to receive information from the DPP concerning a specific case.
The other option for an AG is to issue a directive. The content of the directive can be very broad. As a concrete example, in that case it could have been to give a directive to the DPP to enter into a remediation agreement, or there could have been a directive to ask the DPP to revisit the decision or to reassess the decision. That was one of the options.
Another option was for an AG to decide to assume the conduct of the prosecution. Another option was also to ask for legal advice to the AG to decide whether or not she should exercise her authorities under the act.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Was there a recommendation as to one or more options to pursue?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
I should have said that at the beginning. No.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Do you have any concept of what would have been a preferred option?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
I cannot have an opinion on that. I would like to explain.
To have an opinion on whether or not a deferred prosecution should be offered in a specific case, you have to have in hand the evidence of the case. As I explained to the committee, I'm not privy to the evidence, so I cannot develop an opinion on whether a remediation agreement was appropriate in that case.
I can explain to the committee that the offences that SNC is facing are covered under the regime of remediation agreements. Whether or not a remediation agreement would be appropriate in that case was a decision made by the DPP based on the evidence.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
You also mentioned in your testimony that you incorporate legal opinion in canvassing the possibility of seeking outside advice.
Do you believe that's a reasonable course of action, in particular in a case like this, where it's a brand new law, there are no regulations yet published and this is the first opportunity to actually make use of those—
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
There are maybe two things. The remediation agreement regime is new, but the Director of Public Prosecutions Act is also kind of new.
We've been working with that system in Quebec for almost 10 years now, but at the federal level I think it's eight years, so we don't have any precedent. We don't have any cases in which an AG has used his or her power to issue a directive.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Did you think that despite the decision of the PPSC to not pursue a remediation agreement, it was still reasonable for that option to be considered by the justice department and the Attorney General?